BEWARE THOSE CAPTAINS CANADA
Muller, Linden, Smyth…that should do it
9:30 pm – Updated in the Comments area with some comments of my own about your responses…CB
The LIRR was on time, getting me to Madison Square Garden before Islanders players and coaches were required for pre-game media availability. As these usually ho-hum sessions go, this one during a strike-shortened season on April 4, 1995 would be different.
The Islanders had just acquired Kirk Muller and Mathieu Schneider from Montreal in a controversial deal for Pierre Turgeon and Vladimir Malakhov. Muller, the former Habs captain imported to be the next great leader of the franchise, would in hours make his Islanders debut – against the Rangers at MSG, no less.
I made my way through the Garden’s nooks and arrived in the visiting team hallway. From more than ten yards away, I could tell something was not right. My Islanders colleague in PR, a dear friend, was not a great actress. The look on her face told me trauma was ahead.
“He’s not coming,” she said.
“Who”?
“Muller.”
“What do you mean – like, his flight is late? That sucks, but he’ll make the next game.”
“No, Chris,” she said through clenched teeth, hoping the guys from the Post wouldn’t see the stress. “Kirk Muller is not coming. He isn’t sure he wants to join the Islanders. Ever.”
The rest is history, real bad history.
I re-live this painful moment for Islanders fans as a public service announcement. At some point in the Islanders’ plan to build from within, they will find it necessary to add a major piece or two along the way. When they do, they should think twice about trading for Canadian royalty.
Notice I wrote Canadian, not Canadien. This isn’t just about Kirk Muller. It’s also about Trevor Linden. And it’s also about Ryan Smyth.
Our friendly Northern neighbors are not to blame just because they genuflect before Doug Gilmour like he was…well, Bryan Trottier. Hockey, as you may know, is sort of popular there. With that sometimes comes a lowered bar on the Jordan and Tiger notion of a true superstar. In New York we do that with Derek Jeter baseball players a lot.
Kirk Muller did not spend an honest moment as an Islander from the day he was acquired until the day he was gone, but he did honestly believe he had a higher calling and it was not to be a leader on the New York Islanders. For perspective, we’re not talking about Messier here. At the time Muller was about a half-a-point a game player and, at best, a second-line center for the Canadiens.
Trevor Linden is a tough one because he remains one of my favorite people, but something was lost in his game, in his will, during the time between his last game as a Canuck and his first game as an Islander. His daily beat-downs from his Vancouver coach Mike Keenan had something to do with that, but Trevor never was able to rise above it.
Smyth’s precious few days as an Islander were mostly exceptional. He gave everything he had and played well. Ryan said the right things but never made phony promises.
He is a very good leader who maxes his abilities, including a slapshot that clocks in around 52 mph. But would he have been worth more than 6 million a year for six years to the Islanders? Ryan’s family decision to sign in Colorado was a blessing for all concerned.
Michael Peca’s Islanders career may be under-appreciated. Another one of those Canadian legends, he openly embraced his trade to Long Island from Buffalo (where he was a holdout) and captained the Islanders’ revival. He seemed determined to solve problems, not add to them.
Peca was one of those Captain Canada types, but he never acted like royalty. In contrast, Captain Kirk thought he was King Kirk and the magic was only there for Linden when he was in Vancouver. I believe Ryan Smyth would have learned to love Long Island, but the hectic stretch run of the NHL schedule gave him little time. Months later he had the first opportunity of his career to sign with any team he wanted.
The key with future acquisitions like these is the Islanders must find players who will embrace being part of the solution. (Somewhat on and off topic: Mike Komisarek of West Islip, Long Island, New York…yes, by all means, over-pay, over-pay, over-pay. He’s not going to win a Norris and I don’t really give a crap whether his style fits the system. The Islanders need him).
The Islanders should learn from their experiences with Muller, Linden and Smyth, who, by the way, have one Stanley Cup ring between them and – despite cult-like support from certain media pals – are unlikely to make it to the Hockey Hall of Fame.
This is one of many reasons why I support the Islanders’ commitment to rebuild (as for their ability to execute the plan, we shall see in about two years). If you develop home-grown players, the logo, the team and the community will come to mean something to them, no matter where they are from. Kyle Okposo and Josh Bailey (who love the area), the stud they take next June…give them the chance to feel like they are part of something, to feel like Islanders.
However, when the team eventually goes in search of that veteran star to take the program up a notch, I have a suggestion.
Don’t be limited to buying American, but do your homework on those kings of Canada.
Comments.
80 Responses to BEWARE THOSE CAPTAINS CANADA
Muller, Linden, Smyth…that should do it
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CT Isles Fan says:
Very well put. You are the man.
Turgeon is still my fav though.
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kevin says:
peca was my fav islander and still is. yes we should sign komi and yes smyth is an ass for leaving us dry. was 4 when we had linden and wasnt born when we got kirk but from what i heard from my dad, we didnt like him because they had no interest being here.
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he also says it was an awful trade (kirk trade)
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I came home from little league practice that day, April 4, 1995 (my BIRTHDAY no less) to find my uncle sitting on the stoop looking like he’d just lost his best friend. He told me about the trade, and man oh man did that one hurt. I’d just gotten Pierre to sign my jersey the previous weekend at the fan fest and was looking forward to eventually seeing 77 hanging from the rafters…
Oh well, nothing we can do about it now, but I completely agree with the sentiment. Let’s get the right kind of guys in here who want to grow the team and be known as the ones who restored glory.
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Pat says:
Chris,
Surprised you did not mention Wendel Clark.That situation worked pretty good for us as I recall. Care to comment on his tenure here? Seemed like he did not want to be here – but was willing to be patient and allow Isles management to get him back to where he wanted to be.
Pat
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13MoreYears says:
Great article, CB.
Good points, that Kirk Mueller deal was a joke, he had no desire to be on the Island whatsoever. At least Linden and Smyth were professionals about it, I don’t hold anything against them – good guys.
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Did anything do as much to alter the franchise’s perception as that Muller trade? I mean come on, we were 2 years removed from the conference finals and still had some talent on that team. Suddenly, a player who for some reason is respected decides to go AWOL on us and we start the slide into last-ditch destination. Sad, but the new team attitude and new arena will show everyone the Islanders are truly back.
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DonK says:
Remember, all three players were on the downside of their careers when they were sent to the Island. Muller and Linden were no longer top-six forwards; Smyth is heading there.
The Muller trade basically got Don Maloney fired. I remember Don saying on TV that he was not allowed by the Canadiens to talk to Muller before the deal. Horrible.
Linden, as Chris notes and I can confirm, was/is a great human being. He was heartbroken at being dealt away from “his” team. He did nothing here, or in Montreal or Washington.
Smyth did the Isles a favor by not taking Snow’s offer. The Isles, a low-revenue team, can NOT sign over-30 players to long-term, big-money deals. Think Colorado would like a do-over on that one.
In contrast, I will never forget Peca telling the world that he embraced the challenge of helping turn the Isles around. And he did, for one season at least. Obviously, he’s never been the same since Tucker’s cheap shot — It’s sad now watching the fire that obviously still burns within him encased in the shell of a body that will no longer do what he wants it to. For one season, though, he was a brilliant player and a superb leader.
Tucker’s cheap shot turned the fate of this franchise around — it wound up costing Laviolette his job and triggering a set of circumstances that have led to the morass we see today.
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As a Canadian, I understand what you are saying. Fans and media alike tend to overhype players who are playing up here. But the front office of any team shouldn’t be listening to the media’s assessment of players. They have an entire staff dedicated to this kind of thing, and between them and the GM they should know the true value of every player in the league. They shouldn’t let Pierre MacGuire’s mancrush on Dion Phaneuf (for example) enter into any part of the decision.
On a completely unrelated note, Chris… would you be able to pass onto Steve Webb that his website will not allow me to buy tickets for his raffle. It has a problem with my postal code (I suspect istis set up to only allow American style zips)
I just traded emails with Webby. He says the site is now updated to take transactions from outside the U.S. He wanted to pass along his thanks to PB Readers for making a big difference in his fundraising raffle…CB
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Dallas MacDonald says:
I’m a big Islanders fan from Canada. Nova Scotia doesn’t have an NHL team and I can’t stand Montreal (and like a true Isles fan the Rangers) and I agree with you C.B. I was 5 years old when the Isles won there first cup and was hooked on them by there 3rd cup when a man from my home town of Sydney. Paul Boutlier won the next two cups with the club and lost in the final the following year to the Oilers. I was so happy when we traded for Smyth, he and Peca were my favorite players of the new pseudo-rise of the 2001-2006 era. But they were hard working role players from other organizations. Hopefully we will draft some great players this year (Tavares would be nice), cause New York loves their home-grown drafted talent; just ask Roger Marris when he broke Babe Ruth’s records. He was an outsider brought in and they despised him for it.Even though Ruth was an outsider himself (red sox) Go Islanders.
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Mike from Queens says:
CB:
I seem to remember Peca being one of the reasons Laviolette was run out of town. Perhaps I’m “misremembering” this, but even though he was a big part of making the Islanders matter for the first time in years, if it’s true that he undermined his coach, then I’d question the quality of his captainship.
That’s incorrect, Mike. Pete and Michael were close, and still are today…CB
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Botts,
This is why I check this blog of yours on a daily (almost hourly) basis. You never disappoint with your insight to our team. First, I am in TOTAL AGREEMENT with you on Komi. Look what happened when Edmonton had a bunch of homeboys on their team, game 7 of the Stanley Cup Finals. I would tend to think that Scuderi could be had as well. Getting rid of guys like Sutton and Bruno (while I like both) would free up enough cap space to get the two from LI. Homeboys are important because they are where they grew up, have friends and should want to perform to the best of their abilities in front of their family and friends.
2nd Kirk Muller is a (Milbury laced expeletives) and this should be the last time you mention his name on this blog. The more you mention that name, the more you burn a hole on the interwebs.Keep it coming. How about a story on Chow? Fans had a love/hate for this guy and the season he led the league in goals in the first couple of weeks probably had your phone ringing off the hook with Polish press.
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kingbet123 says:
The Muller fiasco was a complete and total disgrace. To actually think that some of my friends said we got the better of the deal with the inclusion of Craig Darby. LOL
I always loved Linden with the Canucks – he was, and is, a god in BC. That being said, he was never the same player in a uniform other than the Canucks…as long as Keenan wasn’t coaching.
Smyth is another tough one – I do think, though, it all worked out in the end.
Great article, CB.
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Def need some LI boys on the team. That would sell tickets.
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Yashin for President says:
wonder if Komi has plans to come home.. Its just amazing how different the team would look if you were to add Komi, Higgins and whatever stud we get in the draft. I would actually WANT to watch games
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Jon says:
No kings right now, just a bunch of jokers.
Do not forget the Isles Russian experience. There are prima donnas from all countries.
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Strummer's Army says:
It was Yashin and his Russian crew (Kvasha etc) that ran Lavy out of town. It was a divided locker room Peca vs. Yashin. That is when Milbury was spewing crap from his mouth about if we make Alexi more comfy, make him a captain even if he hasn’t earned it, get rid of the guys that get on his ass to play harder Cairns, Scatchard, Aucoin etc.
You make a good point about importing talent. The Mueller for Turgeron deal was HORRIBLE and would have been even if Mueller showed up and gave it all he had. I think that was one of the last of the Maloney deals. Kirk the Jerk! The better point is this, the Isles had Pat LaFontaine, I believe the owner didn’t want to pay him again (clarification CB) so they traded him for Turgeron, who I think they then didn’t want to pay. That team was pretty dangerous Turgeron and Hrudey. It seems to be a reoccurring theme of having very good players like LaFontaine, Hrudey, Jokinen, Bertuzzi, McCabe, Chara, etc. and trading them for what becomes nothing.
Linden was never good the entire time he was here. Peca had a good first year. Smyth was a good fit all the way around but it was lucky he didn’t sign here. What bothers me that Snow should have read Smyth the right way. They offered him a more then generous contract in advance of FA. He and his agent knew it was more money then they were gonna get on the market, so if he ever had any attention of staying and building a winner (as he said many of the components were in place) then he woudl have signed early and starting recruiting other good players to come to LI and win with him. Pretty clear he was NEVER going to resign.
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isles72 says:
someone did a pretty good job of turning muller,schneider,clark into some pretty good building blocks though (kj , luongo etc..)
I feel bad for maloney but I think his heart was in the right place .He was trying to make us a grittier team
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Ryan says:
Have a pretty good inkling that Mike Komisarek will not be coming to Long Island, let alone hit the market. He loves Montreal that much. If by some chance he does hit the open market, the Isles will have to severely over-pay for his services. I think they have a better shot at Chris Higgins, than Komo
Another great article CB, the Turgeon trade crushed me as I’m sure most Islander fans at the time.
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Isles fan in CA says:
I have to agree with Ryan. Komisarek loves playing for Montreal and the fans absolutely adore him. Id love to see him become an Islander. But, I am sure not counting on it in the next few seasons. As usual, awesome post CB!
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randy boyd says:
Nice topic, but why not write about the more obvious problem to be avoided at all costs going forward. Stop making assinine trades for lower talent players to try and buy your next “leader”. What moron other than an Isles GM not named Torrey would trade a legitimate top line, point producing star centerman (that would be Turgeon) for a washed up slug who couldn’t score (ah, that would be Muller) in the name of leadership?
Now, I know that’s history, but this franchise learns nothing from its past mistakes. If it did, dopebury hangs on to his superstar goalie and burgeoning center prospect (Luongo and Jokinen for you youngsters out there) instead of trading for crap to draft a goalie known more for his stickhandling than puckstopping, but with whose “character” the quasi GM became infatuated. Sure DP may someday beat a Rags fan with his own shoe, but he WILL NEVER BE THE EQUAL OF LUONGO, NEVER, EVER, EVER. And those guys come along once every, say, 25 years.
So, Snow, please make your deal for Smyth and your trades down to get Bailey the very last ones you make just to add “leadership”. What an overrated concept if ever there was one. A talent laden team will develop plenty of leadership. please Garth TALENT, TALENT, TALENT.
What do you say to that, CB?
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KP says:
For all the bashing about other trades in Islanders history, I still say the Muller/Turgeon deal was the worst in franchise history. CB, I would love an interview with Don Maloney to provide his insight into what the hell was he thinking when he thought it was smart to pull the trigger on this deal.
I also think the only reason the Isles retired Gillies’ #9 was that the memory of a true gutless puke like Muller wearing it would forever tarnish it.
However, the Malakhov/Schneider deal was a good one. I like Matt a lot as an Islander.
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Now, I know that’s history, but this franchise learns nothing from its past mistakes. If it did, dopebury hangs on to his superstar goalie and burgeoning center prospect (Luongo and Jokinen for you youngsters out there) instead of trading for crap to draft a goalie known more for his stickhandling than puckstopping, but with whose “character” the quasi GM became infatuated. Sure DP may someday beat a Rags fan with his own shoe, but he WILL NEVER BE THE EQUAL OF LUONGO, NEVER, EVER, EVER. And those guys come along once every, say, 25 years.
I’m not looking to start an arguement over the merits of this trade, but to call Luongo our “superstar goalie” is just asinine. He had played a grand total of 24 games, and was 7-14-1. Oh yeah, he was a superstar…
And to say he “WILL NEVER BE THE EQUAL OF LUONGO, NEVER, EVER, EVER” tells me you are probably one of those people (and there are plenty) who just hang onto this trade and will probably never let it go, even if Rick wins a whole bunch of cups for the Islanders. It was a bad trade, yes. Is Luongo really that much better than the rest of the goalies in the league. No. There is no way of even knowing if he’d be as good as he is if he played on the Islanders. IMO, Rick is getting terrible coaching on the Island. I’ve felt this way since he came back from the Olympics and played the best hockey I’d ever seen from him. Then slowly, game by game he got worse, and started making more and more mistakes. I read a comment after one game (the details are fuzzy) something to the effect of he was adjusting back to how the Sudsy wanted him to play.
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The PolishPrince says:
Nice post CB! As most Isles fans would I’d love to see Komi on the Island. I honestly don’t think Montreal’s gonna let him leave though.
Also agree with post 13. How about a story on Chow? He was my favorite Isle at one time. Met him twice….real nice guy. As a player soft and steaky, yes, but look out when he heated up.
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flatpoint says:
I still hate Kirk Muller. Pierre Turgeon was a very good Islander. He never complained and was the most skilled player on a fairly gritty team.The Isles were content to give up skill for character, but Montreal won that trade on both ends.
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I know Komi and Higgs personally and although neither has said anything to me, theres a better chance of Komi coming here than Higgs. But I doubt either will come here because they both are loved so much in MTL. I doubt Kimi hits the open market.
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PTA says:
can’t agree more Chris…those deals wreaked of someone not doing their homework…..building the youth is great for an identity which we badly need but at the same time we need to get a proven veteran at some point…let’s not think we can do it with all young guys…
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CB – Since the Luongo lovers still bash the Luongo deal, how about a story on Jokinen’s tenure here with the Isles and how lazy a guy he was or wasn’t.
The guy was never going to make it here, Mike Keenan made his career.
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funniest thing last night I was watching Milbury between periods on the NHL Network and in one segment he mentioned Luongo’s strong ability, then did a small piece on Bertuzzi and then showed a fight by Chara….i wonder what/if he thinks to himself about these failed moves as GM…
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Blue says:
Great blog CB. One of your best actually.
Unfortunately, I accidentally wandered down the page into “fan opinion” land and was rocketed back to Earth. You can’t beat reality… -
CB,
I must disagree with you on this one…as Donk of comment 9 stated, those players were on the downside of their careers, including the Wendel Clark deal. This does not reflect anything about canadian hockey players, but stupid management decisions, and poor scouting reports on these players. You cannot put the results of those trades on the individual players, but you can hold management responsible for not doing their homework, or cultivating Long Island as a place where players that are not on their last legs want to come and play…remember… The Islanders Dynasties were built on Captain Canadas of days past, Trottier, Bossy, Potvin, Nystrom, Smith (Billy), Tonelly, Gillies, Sutter and Goring …need I say more??
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doc says:
Isles Fanatic:
The difference between what you are TRYING to say and with what CB STATED VERY CLEARLY IS..
Potvin Bossy Trottie Tonelli Gillies et al… were “home-grown” Canadian’s that were a part of the Islanders culture… they owned the white orange and blue of the Islanders. They were not imported “over-hyped” Canadian’s that didn’t have a perspective or a feeling of being a part of Long Island and the Islanders.
YOU completely missed the point of the entire BLOG!
DOC
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Ryan says:
KP: Assuming what you’re saying is 100% correct, then the yolk is still on the Isles’ faces for being unable to develop Jokinen properly.
PTA: I doubt he thinks about it at all. From everything I’ve seen, Milbury is a classic narcissist. If you asked him for his honest opinion of himself, he might admit some small errors but overall will maintain that every move he did made sense.
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Calgary says:
I can’t remember a time I was more angry/dissipointed than the Muller trade. To me this was the start of the franchise being looked at as a joke. Reading your blog CB, even after all these years the pain still remains. Ouch! As an Islander fan from Canada, Calgary it’s very difficult to be an Islander fan. Our team gets no respect here. Hers’ to a win in January!!!!
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Isles Fan in Ulster County says:
That Turgeon trade was the worst, along with the fire sale soon after. I got Turgeon and Vukota’s autographs at Roosevelt Field Mall one year earlier, and suddenly…. they were Habs!
As for the Luongo deal, it was stupid, and people say that Luongo is the quality of superstar that comes along once every 25 years… really? He’s fantastic, but is one of a kind in the same way that Roy, or Brodeur have been? His career stats don’t speak to greatness, and he hasn’t led a team to the cup, ever.
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Dadi says:
There are 3 players in the whole NHL I can’t stand , for years: Mike Comrie, Ryan Smyth & Mike Cammalleri.One is here, one was here, and how lucky I am Garth will sign Cammy next summer…
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I don’t want to give Milbury any passes here… but I don’t think he had the best of ownership behind him. I think he made desparate moves hoped to be shocking and have lightening strike while working within ownership constraints.
However, that being said, he made some really knuckleheaded decisions.
DOC
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I meant to say something about Captain Smyth. He jerked the Isles around about saying how he didn’t want to commit, until he tried his hand in the market. He should have just said, I plan to sign elsewhere, because the first day of free agency, he bolted to the Avs.
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WillC says:
CB, I disagree with the Linden assessment. He leader for whom you would build a team around. That team was already a mess with no direction, we gave him a crap and told him to make it a diamond. He just spray painted it chrome. He is one of the most generous athletes in all of sports, he and Gino Odjick took the time to talk with a couple of dumb kids freezing there ass off in the middle of winter after a terrible Isles loss. Most guys sneak out, we talked for over 20 minutes about the cup run and our distaste for the Rangers. He is a class act. His work with Canuck place is amazing, if we kept him around maybe there would’ve been Isles Place?
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JKP in Halifax says:
Being a Canadian, I don’t think the problem was they were Canadians. Perhaps it’s their personalities. Or maybe it was the Islanders. Smyth is a different case. He was an Oiler stick boy, grew up in Edm, married an Edm girl, etc. He wanted to be closer to his family.
Being Canadian didn’t seem to bother Messier when he went to NYR.
I don’t think they need a hometown boy, i think, as others have said, they need a homegrown player – like Potvin, also a Canadian…
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I can’t help but think (know) that several readers of this blog have missed the point.
CB is not calling out “CANADIANS” and saying that “they” are problems…
He’s stating… I think… that these few example of Canadians that became Islanders were “deflated” shells of themselves because of their “hockey royalty” status.
They may have been supremely disappointed in becoming Islanders and their performance showed.
Therefore the Islanders in the future should be careful in bringing in future “Canadian Royalty”
DOC
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guerin13 says:
the turgeon trade still bothers me a lot to this day. i still remember where i was when i heard that trade and the sickening feeling that immediately popped up. the isles should have attempted to lock up #77 for the rest of his career, not trade him for garbage. that was a heartbreaker that drove people away from this franchise. the linden deal was a mistake but not nearly as much as the turgeon deal was. i actually don’t think that the smyth deal was a mistake. i don’t think that nilsson is anything more than a 3rd line player (which we have plenty of), o’marra isn’t an nhl player, and who knows what angelo epsosito amounts to. it didn’t work but it was worth a shot b/c it could have produced a playoff run if dp had stayed healthy. i really hope that nyi acknowledge turgeon’s accomplishments here someday.
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NYCIslanders says:
Embracing being a part of the solution is why I’m such a big fan of Brendan Witt. He genuinely seems like he wants to be here.
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I am surprised that anyone is taking Chris Bottas article as if he was saying something negative about Canadian players in general. Please look again, because that really isnt what he said in this entry.
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admin says:
Some clarifications to items written by Commenters:
Pat LaFontaine was traded for Turgeon, Hogue and Krupp when he held out – like Yashin in Ottawa – with a year still remaining on a contract. A bad contract, but a contract nonetheless.
WillC: I’m glad you had the same great experience with Trevor that anyone he ever encouters does, but when he got here he was not “the leader you could build a team around.” Shoot, I think even Trevor would admit that. He was not sent packing but wanted out. He was traded for a first round pick to Montreal, where he was the same player he was with the Islanders.
Isles fan in Ulster County: Smyth did not jerk around the Islanders. The Islanders know that and have not criticized him on or off the record. He owed the team nothing, made no promises, negotiated with the team and made the decision he felt was best for him and his family. Ask Snow the next time you see him.
Pat: interesting you brought up Wendel Clark. In my opinion, he doesn’t fit with this trio because he played here with a destroyed back, never complained, still managed somehow to score 24 goals in 58 games and I loved getting to work with him for a year. Cliff Fletcher desperately wanted him back in TO despite Wendel being on the downside and the Islanders traded him and Matt Schneider for Kenny Jonsson and a first round pick (Roberto).
Yashin and Kvasha did not run Laviolette out of town. Some dangerous misinformation shows up here once in a while.
DOC: thanks for trying.
I’m a huge Yankees and Jeter fan, but as a player he’s no Bryan Trottier. Doug Gilmour, maybe.
To the readers after one of these long columns who essentially write, as randy boyd did this time, yeah, ok article, but how about writing how much this GM sucked and that GM sucks, changing the subject and ending with “so what do you say about that, CB”? All I can say is, geez…
Thank you to everyone for the kind comments, constructive criticism and thoughtful, passionate responses as always…Good night…CB
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Brooks Simpson says:
Not sure I’d pick on Derek Jeter. Oh, one can make fun of some of the hero-worship, but this Islanders team could use a little Jeter … and those Cup winners had the same sort of knack.
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redz says:
Chris, how often does a GM get to speak to the player (or via the agent0 BEFORE a trade is made? Did this happen at all with Muller? Smyth? Peca?
Is that a common practice as far as you know?
Great post, by the way. I am a Canadian hockey fan and totally agree with the way the players are revered here. As an Islanders fan, I always cringe at the thought of a top forward being traded to Long Island because I always feel that they don’t want to be Islanders.
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Well Brooks I don’t know if CB was picking on Jeter. I wholeheartedly agree that Derek Jeter isn’t Derek Jeter without the Yankees. It’s the same way, I imagine, as when Bobby Orr signed with the Blackhawks and was never the same.
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Mike O says:
Quick question CB, I always wondered who ran Peter Lav’s out of town. It is becoming evident that the way certain people in the organization react to mistakes, is the same no matter who the coach or the players are. When the GM and Owner make awful choices, the coach gets the axe and the players get the rap. I don’t believe Yashin, Kvasha, or Peca had enough influence to run a coach out.
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GoalieMike says:
It would be awesome to bring home Komi but would a player born in KC, drafted and rose to prominence with the Yanks ever return home to KC because its a good story??? Probably not…
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James says:
It’s Joba Time. JOsh BAiley Time. Get it? Ehh, nevermind. Long weekend.
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Glenn says:
CB, I loved this piece. Way back in my 10th or 11th grade english class, we had to do an “informative speech.” I chose to do it on how one trade, the Kirk Muller deal, led to the downfall of the franchise by spawning a series of bad\disappointing deals. I even had a chart of the moves taken from one of the NY papers to help. Never respected Muller after the debacle, and anyone who does should have their fandom card revoked.
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Priest,
You are certainly correct (and I was not trying to suggest otherwise) that Luongo was not yet a superstar here. He played a short amount of time on a bad team, but there is no question that he was highly touted and well thought of as a young goalie with true #1 potential. When the deal was made, no one at the time suggested that DP was more talented. All Milbury talked about was the kids “guts, character” and his puck moving skills a la Brodeur. The point I was trying to make is that those type of decisions, based upon “intangibles” (or worse with an 18 year old, perceived intangibles) have created some horrific moves.
Despite the perception from this particular post, I am not a DP hater or basher. I think that he has excellent potential if he can find good health, but I do not think that he has the same skill level as Luongo, much less durability. Nothing would make me happier than to see DP with a ring and Luongo with all of the stats but a bare finger. I just have trouble seeing the logic in the move that was made, since this team would have more assets available to it had it not been made.
Coaching? He was playing like an all-star last year before he was cursed enough to be an all-star and hurt himself in the skills competition. I’m not sure that sudsie or Dunham deserve to take a shot for what has transpired in his career thus far.
CB, I’m not sure I get your criticism of my post. It’s legitimate to discuss the prior (and current) GM’s mistakes in bringing in “captain canada’s” but not to want to discuss or criticize their errors in selecting “character” over talent?
GEEZ, indeed.
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isles316 says:
Great read CB. I was 14 when the Islanders traded Turgeon and I literally cried. Out of all the moves I’ve ever seen, I still think that one was the worst by far. Turgeon still contributed well until he retired a few years ago.
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Akeem says:
CB,
Great post as always. The one thing you didn’t include, however, is what was the impetus for Maloney and the Isles to make that deal? Were they afraid they weren’t going to be able to sign Turgeon? Did they actually think they got equal value? Was Maloney just trying to make a statement?
As you said, you were only a PR guy, so you don’t know the definitive answer to that question since you weren’t exposed to the hockey side of things, but even a conjecture would be helpful. -
Akeem – Turgeon was just signed to a very lucrative extension the year before. He was locked up long term, so contract was certainly not an issue.
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Idle thoughts of an insomniac…I remember I wrote an opinion piece for my 5th grade newspaper that year entitled “Muller Should Stop Crying.” I went on and on about how Muller was “acting like a baby” and “should be grateful he was even playing in the NHL,” given how many kids wanted to do that their whole lives. Wow, I haven’t thought about that in 13 years. Kinda funny (now, it sure as hell wasn’t funny then).
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Mike from Oceanside says:
CB – Thanks for taking my suggestion for an entry regarding the Muller situation for a run in your blog. To this day, I still feel that this organization is feeling the effects of his refusal to join the club.
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UIF says:
I’m sure Smyth was a perfect gentleman about it, but I think he knew all along he wasn’t staying here. CB, I read your response to “Ulster,” and I’m sure you know waaay more than I do about it. I agree he “owed the Isles nothing,” but the team pulled out all the stops and treated this guy like he was gold. A simple, “Thanks guys, but I really don’t think I’m going to play here next season” sometime before July 1 would have been nice so the Isles could have spent their time and resources elsewhere, and may not have had the embarrassment of announcing Jon Sim as their only July 1 signing. I always suspected he was trying to use a crazy mega Charles Wang offer to get a better deal elsewhere…based on nothing but my own take on the situation.
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I don’t understand why they did not trade Smyth’s rights on June 28th or so – once they figured that they could not get him. Even for a 5th rd pick
Pat
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Turgeon/Muller… ugh, I threw up in my mouth a little bit.
From 1975-1993 the Islanders were arguably the toughest playoff opponent in hockey… I can’t find it all ow but I once ran over the whole period and broke down the numbers: the incredible record when facing elimination (the Isles of those years won something like 70% of all those games), forcing back-to-back Game 7s after trailing 3-0 in ’75, either winning the Cup or losing to the eventual Cup champion TEN TIMES (again, off memory, may be off a bit).
Then came the demolition in ’94 and the “We got screwed” trade – I’ve named it such because that was my instant, bug-eyed reaction to it, a reaction I’ve had only one other time: the Luongo/Jokinen for Parrish/Kvasha deal. What a waste. Turgeon had a house on the Island, a long extension, was proud of the franchise and its direction and potential… the story is that he cried when he was sent away. What’s certain is that the rest of us cried. What a dog of a trade that was.
This team has a lot of character guys right now, and that’s good, but character guys aren’t much if they aren’t imparting those lessons to truly talented kids who will become the cornerstone of the franchise. Bailey and KO are something of a start; a Tavares or Hedman would really begin to fill in those talent gaps. CB had a long post already on how many Isles prosepcts are serving as captains or assistants on their current squads… so how about adding some first-class hockey skill to the mix?
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Some of the best players and charactor guys the Islanders had rose from the depths of the 72 73 74 seasons… began winning and adding parts in 75 76 77… “under-achieved” a bit in the playoffs of 78 etc… we all know the story.
So just because there is a lot of losing now… the players that will remain on this roster the next few years can become integral parts of a “winning” culture.
Of course adding more talent is necessary.
DOC
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Nobody denies the need for talent. Our prospect cupboard has been bare (either with a lack of numbers or low-ceiling prospects) since basically the 01 draft. We have some talent, the only issue is that it’s a few years away from contributing in the NHL. I’m encouraged by the strong performance of our prospects in the junior and college ranks, as well as what’s been going on with the Sound Tigers.
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Billy H says:
You know it is kind of funny how when I go through these posts, many of you had the same reaction to the Pierre Turgeon trade as I did and still remember it as vividly as I do. I was 12 years old and doing my homework in my room. I just heard a 20/20 on WFAN about it, and my heart dropped. I have never been more disappointed as an Islander fan than I was that day. I thought he would be to me what a guy like Bryan Trottier was to older fans.
Ironically I would have many more disappointments to look forward too.
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Great post. I imagine we’re more than two years off from even thinking about buying someone else’s problem again. But I’m patient.
It’s funny, like Calgary (comment #37), despite all we’ve been through, mention of the Turgeon deal is what really re-opens the wound for me to this day. It felt wrong that day and only got worse over time. Dammit.
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Newf says:
Great post!
Something on a better note, TSN has a sweet article on Isles Top 12 prospects. Good read. -
jethro09 says:
I hated Kirk Muller. I hated the fact that we traded Pierre Turgeon to get him. We traded away a guy who loved playing on the Islanders for a bum who thought his crap didn’t stink, that he was too good for the Islanders. One of many Don Maloney blunders in his short time as GM.
As far as Linden is concerned, the only thing I hated about him being on the team was the constant reminder I got every time he took a half-hearted shift of how Mike Milbury got used in a trade, throwing away Bryan McCabe and Todd Bertuzzi for an old man who also didn’t want to be an Islander.
Its going to be hard, but I don’t want to see the Isles throw money at UFA’s or RFA’s in order to entice them to come here. Either they want to be part of this thing or they don’t. If they don’t, fine. We’ll stick with the re-build.
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Scott W says:
A couple of points on the topic:
1-Linden:
The Isles basically got what should have been expected out of Linden. If I remember correctly, there were whispers he had lost a little in his game. He wasn’t old when the islanders got him (27 or 28), however statistically he was slowing down.2-Darby
Don’t forget Craig Darby who was included in the Turgeon trade from Montreal. I am not sure how much Maloney built him into the Turgeon trade, but I believe he was a pretty highly ranked prospect at the time. Not that this helps, as this trade still killed us.3-Turgeon:
I wonder if there was more to the trade then simply trying to get Muller. Turgeon was an amazing talent. His season in 93 was maybe the best individual season by an islander not named Bossy. However, as bad as the Muller Turgeon trade was, Montreal wound up dealing Turgeon also for Corson. So I wonder if there were some questions about Turgeon. -
Tony says:
As an Isles fan since 1980, I would rate Muller as public enemy #1 over anyone in team history, even worse than Dale Hunter.
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In response to Post #72 (Tony): My public enemy #1 is Mike Milbury.
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JPinVA says:
I wonder what deal you all think was the worst for us:
(in my order)
1. Drafting DP… because that was like trading Luongo, Jokinen and (heatley/gaborik?) for DP, Parrish and Kvasha. If I’m not mistaken FL felt so bad they let Milbury buy goddard.
2. Turgeon/Muller… May have been the worst deal of the century because of Muller’s attitude and a franchise “trying to build for the future”… which… believe it or not is sometimes a waste of time. (just saying)… ask the cubs and red sox… I really don’t want to wait 90 years for another cup. I might not be able to get to the newly refurbished NVMC by then.
3. Yashin/chara+Muckalt+pick(spezza)… if not for the extended and bloated contract this wasn’t really as bad (at the time) as everybody thinks. Yashin wasn’t much worse than most fans thought he was, and at the time most people wouldn’t have expected Chara to become a monster. The killer is that, while bidding against only themselves, they gave yashin the keys to the colley. (once again…[DP]… poor management making a bad situation WORSE) -
318J1 says:
in my opinion the best players to have are home grown. that being said i would love to see Komisarik, Higgins, Scuderi, Z.Parise, E.Nystrom, J.Tambellini (i know, i know), Gillies nephew, Bob Bourne’s son (i think we still have him), Jerry Heart’s son (i think we still have him too), Brandon Sutter, Vladimir Nikiforov, the Marcou brothers, Gilroy, and throw in brendan Morrow (not shur if he is related to Ken but you get the point), all the Mcdonald’s and MacDonald’s (Jiggs), all the Smith’s (not smyth), and all the Beech boys (get it).
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in response to #74 (JPinVA): you forgot to mention McCabe and Bertuzzi for Linden and a pick. I don’t know if that was intentional as a way of trying to pretend it never happened or if it was inadvertant. That one is my #2 behind the package debacle of DP/Kvasha-Parrish moves. The Yashin deal comes right in at #3 with the Turgeon/Muller-puke at #4.
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NYCIslanders says:
I’ve often wondered if Don Maloney felt that Turgeon was not the same player after the hit by Dale Hunter and precipitated the trade.
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It just didn’t make my top three…that’s all. I just felt that Linden was a pretty good player…
DP’s head barely fits on the sheet. Purely speculation, but he may have been in Milbury’s ear along with Yashin who would have both benefitted from moving towards a full blown trap (Sterling). So adios to Peter L. Not to mention the jettison of Asham (fight) and to some extent Nolan(the public pouting when he was held out against his will v the rangers). Now he is one of the stars in the CHOWDERHEAD CONSTELLATION (Chowda-alpha), which just may be the navigational beacon that leads this team off the end of the earth.
Muller… good lord… not worth the time to go into what I think of that guy.
Yashin had his moments as an Islander, but was a disappearing act every time the team really needed him… and making the guy who everybody in canada hated for being a worthless prima dona a captain… and making us believe that York was equal compensation for Peca… wow there are so many things that went bad eventually. Yashin was like a bad cheese that just got smellier every year… but everybody was forced to take a bite because it was so damn expensive. -
BringBackNyles says:
To lump Ryan Smyth in with the othe rtwo is unfair, he came here mid-season and tried to make the best of it, I don’t recall him ever not being positive. When he got here, we lost DiP, otherwise maybe we draw Atlanta instead of Buffalo and win a round.
I don’t think anyone outside of Snow really thought this guy was going to resign here, it wasn’t like he ever led anyone on. Let;s be honest, the guy spent his whole career in hocky mad canada, is called Capt Canada, and his first night after the trade, when you would think the buzz would be high, we had 9,000 for Florida. Quite a comedown from the NHL atmosphere in Edmonton.
He gave it a shot here, Muller never even tried.
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Puckhead says:
This is by far your best article CB
Great posts by all, but also reminders of the days of the SABATOSE Maloney, and his killing of the franchise known as The New York Islanders……we can only go up from here
First person that comes to mind – Trent Hunger