SAY SO LONG TO TAVARES AND HEDMAN
How Go-Go is screwing up a franchise draft pick
On the subject of the Islanders’ need to be in position to draft a true cornerstone player, I’d never quite found the right words. Then over the weekend I saw an interview on TSN with Brian Burke and - son of a gun - the new Leafs boss nailed it.
Asked if the Leafs must somehow get one of the top picks in the ‘09 draft to take a franchise player, Burke said the following:
“I think a team should be either ascending rapidly or descending rapidly. I don’t believe being ‘good’ is a solution. It’s all about having a (Stanley Cup) parade.”
Amen.
Go ahead - wave the Detroit Red Wings and the drafting of Datsyuk and Zetterberg all around. Fine, that’s one. I’ll go with Burke. For teams like the Leafs and Islanders - long between drinks and not very close to their next one - the quickest route to that parade is the drafting of a legitimate franchise player. No, not Schenn or Filatov or Bailey, but more like the calibre of at least two studs available in the 2009 NHL Draft.
By almost all accounts John Tavares and Victor Hedman are franchise players. Behind them in a second group are 6-6 defenseman Jared Cowen and all-tools center Matt Duchene. After Cowen and Duchene is another dropoff to the next group of two or three players more at the Bailey-Okposo level.
Burke wouldn’t, couldn’t talk of tanking the season. Like any GM, how could you do that to your coach, your players and your fans? I understand that.
But gosh-darn Scott Gordon and his crazy system. Most prognosticators - not this one - had the Islanders staring right at Hedman or Tavares at the beginning of the season. One national publication actually called on the eve of the season opener to ask whether I thought the Islanders would take Hedman or Tavares with the first overall pick.
Gordon has changed all that. As coach, his job is to take the lineup given him - flawed, injuries and all - and lead his team to as many victories as possible. Despite two or three mindboggling rookie missteps, Gordon has done that as well as any coach in the NHL at the quarter pole.
I asked him after practice today about the “reliability” of having a system to fall back on after brutal losses like the one in Boston on Friday. The Islanders dusted themselves off, found their forecheck and beat Ottawa 30 hours later. “The biggest takeaway is that we have established a mindset,” Gordon said. “We play a certain style. If we do it well, we have success.
“On Saturday, we were coming off one of our worst performances of the season and we were playing a team sitting in New York at the hotel rested and waiting to play us. Despite some trying circumstances - back-to-back, playing our sixth game in 9 days - we played Ottawa the way we wanted to play them and got the result we wanted.”
At this rate, the Islanders’ first round selection will be somewhere between 6th and 16th overall.
For all the incredible players that came later, the Islanders are not the Islanders without Denis Potvin - taken first overall in 1973. In the big picture, are the Islanders better off being competitive now, or drafting Tavares or Hedman and eventually getting them under contract for 12 years?
You should either be ascending rapidly or descending rapidly. At the 24-game mark, it certainly doesn’t look like the Islanders are descending rapidly. Good for the Islanders.
But is it good for the Islanders?
The Point Blank Top 4 of the 2009 Draft
1. Victor Hedman - 6-6 defenseman excelling as a teenager in the Swedish Elite League. Chris Pronger meets Nicklas Lidstrom.
2. John Tavares - A prodigy with everything except exceptional quickness. If you prefer to keep your franchise players for 15 years and not lose sleep that Hedman some day might want to go home (like Kenny Jonsson), you pick this franchise center and never look back.
3. Matt Duchene - A center from Brampton of the OHL with blazing speed to go with hands and playmaking ability.
4. Jared Cowen - The top-ranked player in the Western Hockey League, a 6-5 shutdown dman with offensive upside.
Comments?
I don’t think there are too many Islander fans who would disagree. Unfortunately, it seems the franchise must straddle the precipice of mediocrity to the extent required to satiate its Lighthouse aspirations. There are probably a lot of people (fans?) who believe the Islanders were trying to “blow” their respective seasons with some of their various maneuvers over the last several years.
Either way, I agree Chris, and I applaud you for saying it. Anyone actually think we can get out of the first round of the playoffs with our current offensive output?
I think if the team shows up consistently every night we could do very well this season. We definitely have the talent - Weight is back on track and Hunter is almost what he did last year - being examples. We just have to stay healthy and play the system every game for 60 minutes. Can we win the Cup…no, I’m not stupid…but could we annoy the hell out of teams that would like to…sure thing!
My sister’s husband’s sister’s best friend is a realtor in Lloyd Harbor and she says Gaborik was there Sunday looking at houses so I guess its a done deal Sorry CB you were scooped by the bad guys. Oh by the way the same realtor has a bridge for sale in Brooklyn
I have stated this case numerous times here. It does the team no good, in fact, it does tremendous damage to the organization to not be in position to draft 1 or 2. This draft is especially deep so the first few picks of round 2 are going to be potential high impact players as well. Glad to hear Burke will be making the pick of Tor’s we own more valuable.
The Isles have hurt themselves numerous times by either barely making the playoffs or coming close. By doing this they missed out on much better talent and delayed their return to prominance. Gordon can still teach and move the youngsters forward without destroying the chances of Hedman or Tavares. Weight is driving his trade value up every game, add that to the stockpile of picks and watch how fast this teams gets really good. Finish 8-16 and get ready for more years of this.
I love watching the team win but its hard to argue that maybe the best thing this club could do is lose. It almost pains me to say that!!!!!! It is a long season CB and December has always been a brutal month for us so who knows. As my Grandma would say “if it will be, it will be”.
i don’t think a team should ever intentionally tank it. that creates a horrible mindset that tolerates losing and it will kill morale. the isles have to give 100% each game, field the best team possible, and whatever happens in the draft happens. and bossy was taken 15th in the draft. are the isles a dynasty w/o him? no. if the devils and wings can win w/o a top pick, so can we.
Uh, Matt I wonder if we had the same Grandma? lol
A team is not ever going to intentionally tank it, there are just to many people involved to make that happen. Everyone would have to be on the same page which is unrealistic. Heard that one Strummer? And I thought only my Grandma said it!! LOL. Truest statement ever made, isn’t it?
I agree with Burke’s comments, although he kind of dug himself a hole in that interview, you know he would love to be the star of the draft again. And as a long suffering Isles fan, I hope they start tanking. People will challenge my fanship for saying that but I don’t have a choice in the matter, this is my team and I want what is best for them. I wish as a fanbase we could all suck it up and allow it to happen without reprieve. Just don’t tell that to Doug Weight.
I think the only way to descend rapidly is if the GM comes in and overhauls the roster for the worse. You have to give Burke credit for telling Leafs fans that’s why he is there.
Agreed….We’ve been over this so many times. I know the 1st overall pick is the best possible thing for the future of this franchise. However, as a fan I can’t root for them to lose, just like I cheered their winning streak toward the end of last year even though I knew that meant Goodbye Stamkos.
With a solid system and an all-star goaltender (when healthy), I wonder if the Islanders will ever be bad enough to get the 1st overall pick. However, here’s my question: What does it say about a franchise when a team with Lecavalier, St. Louis, Boyle, and other very good players still finishes dead last in the league?
As much as it pains me to see this team lose year after year the top 2 picks in this draft are just what the doctor ordered for this stagnent franchise. As much as our go-go system has us playing decent hockey we are still only 3pts away from still being the worst team in the NHL as well as only 4pts from the number 6-7 slot. It is still to early to tell, I think we will have a better read come January of whether or not Tavares might be in our sights!
Chris, it’s not just Detroit - every team that has sustained success does so with smart drafting/trading, good coaching, and hard working players. Look at a team like the Devils. They’ve had a winning team, with a few cups thrown in, for 15 years now, and their highest draft pick was Brodeur who I think was like 20th or 21st overall - it can be done, but it must be done right…
(sorry, hit “submit” too soon) Having guys like Potvin, Bossy, Gillies, Smith, et al helped the dynasty team, but a coach like Arbour might have had more to do with it.
Screw losing… I want these boys to learn how to win.
Was Mike Bossy drafted 1st overall?
No worries, I seriously doubt the Islanders veteran players will be able to keep up this system all year regardless. Look for this team to play nearly 500 hockey and then slip off in January.
4 points out of a playoff spot and 3 points out of the 1st pick. We are right there. Let’s not act like we are better then we are.
All draft picks have the potential to bust. Not all first overall picks that the “experts” believe are going to tear it up end up doing it. And Tavares and Hedman could end up right there too. What would everyone say if we tanked the season, drafted one of them, and then go out and end up right were Tampa is right now with Stamkos? Who knows how he’ll end up on that disfunctional team, a team that at times reminds me of the Islanders of the last, oh, 15 years or so. Just play the kids you have right now and win the hockey games that are in front of you. Worry about the draft in April and May. Losing is NEVER good.
One more point - as sure a thing as Tavares or Hedman may be, the draft is a complete crapshoot. In the 99 draft, which if my memory serves me correct absolutely STUNK for the first 2 rounds (that was the year of the Sedin twins and the Isles drafting Connolly Pyatt and Mezei), Detroit drafted the aformentioned Henrik Zetterberg in the 7th round! Let’s play to win, and let everything take care of itself…
Losing isnt good but it is if we are going to have a first round playoff exit. Get one of these guys, someone that has the potential to turn into a star and a great boost for the youth movement.
Zach Parise was chosen 17th overall.
Its to early let’s talk in Mid Feb and see where we stand..
There are teams behind us that have a lot more talent (Dallas, Tampa Bay) than us and will soon be higher than us.
Is this a good time to bring up that in five consecutive seasons spanning the end of the last decade and the beginning of the current decade, we drafted (or could have drafted) at the following positions in Round 1:
1997–4, 5
1998–9
1999–5, 8, 10
2000–1, 5
2001–2
Were it not for He Who Shall Not Be Named screwing everything up, we would be where we should be at this point.
I have greater trust in Snow than I did in HWSNBN, but let’s just let it play out and whatever happens happens.
This isn’t basketball. Individuals do not win the Stanley Cup. Teams win the Stanley Cup. Do superstars help? Of course they do, but having one doesn’t guarantee anything. And not having one doesn’t mean you can’t win. I think you can ascend rapidly without one.
It’s absurd to suggest that any team in any professional sport should tank even a single game in the name of landing a top draft pick. Absurd!
Chris- any truth to Gaborik? whats its going to cost? Is it the right move? Will we sign him? It would sure put some juice into the old barn. Martinek, Tambs, Trovino?
We need a top 5 pick as far as I am concerned. We are in a rebuild and usually you need top picks and some lucky trades to become a good team. With the islanders we need top picks..
The Islanders had their chance to build a team by drafting studs in the late 90’s early 2000’s but somebody had other plans. Heatley should have been our Bossy and Luongo was/should have been our Smith.
Loungo is no Billy Smith>
im so tired of “battling hard” and “competing”. I don’t want to watch this team compete for the next 20 years. I want to watch them WIN.
You can have systems and work ethic and everything else but bottom line - you aren’t going to win it all without talent - and the islanders are truly lacking in that department, both on the ice today and in the system.
As far as hed/tav as 1/2 picks next draft - on the outside chance the isle somehow are in the drivers seat - you simply have to take tav. They are both clearly franchise players - there hasn’t been talent like this available in a while - but people don’t pay $ to come watch a defenseman play - and thats what the isles need in addition to talent - a gate draw.
Yes, Potivn was a #1 pick but the heart and soul of the Isles dynasty were not #1 picks, Nystrom, Tonelli, Gilles and a great trade for Goring made it happen and stick together! I think we have some talent in the pipeline right now, Rhett R, Figren, Petrov, Kessel, Bailey, all will get this team back to contending for a cup in 3 years. I also love the fact that the Isles keep beating up the Canadian teams! We get no respect on the NHL network until we stun the Habs, Canucks and Senators!
I dream of winning the draft lottery this year…..and yes, I seem to recall the Pittsburgh Penquins tanking the season to get a fairly good player from Quebec - named Mario Lemeiux. They had to put the lottery in shortly after that. Except for the Ranger$ games - I hope we lose a bunch and finish dead last. One step back - in order to take many steps forward. Have to get that elite player to take passes from bailey !
Pat
Gotta agree with jax at post 17 on this one. We’re three points out of last place. Maybe it’s the whole crashing of the financial world weighing on me but I’m lookin’ at the glass half empty. Can this team as it is currently constructed actual execute go-go’s system sucessfully for the entire season? I don’t know. I’m cheering like heck for them every game but a high pick in THIS draft class is an awful nice consolation prize.
Does anyone else here see the need to get better quickly? This team, wallowing in mediocrity or much worse since 1993, simply does not put enough people in the seats (or make enough money off of the ones that do go), to really think of staying here. If we get better quickly, put 16,000 in the Coliseum every night, and start winning playoff series, we can still call ourselves the Islanders. If not, the Kansas City, Hamilton, or Las Vegas Islanders would not make much sense…
i wouldnt say goodbye to tavares or hedman just yet. we’re barely a quarter of the way through the season. the isles had a better record after 24 games last year than they did this year and they still ended up finishing with the 5th pick. also, i think that a lot of scouts the top 7 or 8 guys picked this year could be franchise players, thats how good this class is supposed to be.
The solution is obvious: We should trade for another team’s first round pick and then root for that team to finish last, while we continue to grow.
Seriously, I think it’s worth looking at teams like Atlanta and Tampa Bay which have had elite talent for some time now, and have struggled mightily at the same time. The key to a rebuild is not simply good drafting. Proper development is crucial, and stems largely—in my opinion—from creating a winning environment.
If I was in your presence I would hug you. Thank you for writing a dead on article. Islander fans have to look into reality and see that this team is not winning the cup. At this rate we will either make the 8th spot and get eliminated in the first round or we will finish 10th and get an average draft pick. We have to stop being mediocre.
The lighthouse looks iffy, no free agents of substance will come here….WE NEED A TOP PICK!
I’m in agreement with most here, while it is not fun to root against your team, it is really in the best interest of this franchise to obtain a franchise player. We just don’t have the skill. I want to have a forward or defensemen that is in the upper echelon of players. We haven’t had that here in a long time.
No one can expect Gordon to lose if he doesn’t HAVE to. If they can’t draft first, then they have to draft SMARTER. And they will.
Part of what kills us is the perception of us. Let me explain. As bad as Dallas has been no team is having a “letdown game” when they go up against them. They are still feared. By way of that theory we might garner an extra 6-8 pts. over the course of a season just from teams coming into a half empty building after having played in some war against the Flyers the previous night and have our forecheck just steamroll their half interested posteriors.
What are you getting at matty? Mainly that years of disrespect and topping out at slightly better than average along with playing in a building that often lacks energy might keep us from drafting 1st.
Translation. We’ve sucked too much to suck enough.
I’ve been telling my brother whos giddy the Isles have been doing so well that there going NOWHERE until they get a Cornerstone to build around (i.e Hedman, Tavares). I probably sound like a horrible fan but I don’t feel like being teased into a 1st round playoff loss.
We’ll you have Hedman and Taveras 1 and 2. Then several talented forwards Duchene, Schenn, Svensson and Kane along with Cowen as a D man. In the middle of the 1st there are some very good players Zach Kassain nasty to play against Richard Panik and Peter Holland and a huge d man Taylor Doherty 6′8″ 220lbs. Isles could take a top 8 guy then maybe move some of the 2nd rounders and get another middle of the 1st round say 12-20 pick and get some more help.
When the Isles lose consistently, then fans piss and moan, and call for Garth’s head; when the Isles win games, the fans piss and moan, and call for Garth’s head. Islanders are the most finicky fans in hockey. The goal of this season shouldn’t be to draft Tavares, but to establish a new culture, and mindset in the Islander organization–in the offices, locker room, and seats. If the Isles draft Tavares, great–if the Isles get to the playoffs, great–as long as they show progress. Fans need to stop this pissing and moaning.
The win quickly mantra in reference to the team moving is one of the reasons this team is in its current state.
Remember all those ‘win now’ moves that saw one prospect after another be moved for a veteran ‘win now’ type player over the past decade?
If the lighthouse does not get the greenlight, then it will be because of the project itself, political issues, and just typical lack of vision from LI constituents.
In reference to ATL and TB.
ATL is horribly managed and a terrible draft history.
TB was a SC winner, never replaced Bulin, the players cried about the coach, and new management arrived manages the team like a 15yr old playing Xbox.
Let NYI sink or swim as is. However, with this much ‘youth’ in the line-up and lots of injuries the chances of this team holding up after game 50/60 is a longshot.
Burke has the right idea, a financial commitment to do it, and a treasury department-style team to fund it. He lacks PC, but, hey, he will need the media to help dump Kaberle, Kubina, and the no-brainer of buying out Blake.
Also, TOR has the ability, with the proper moves, to land some nice UFA pieces ala PHI style. See J-BO, Sedin Twins, Gionta (not his type though), etc.
Can’t argue with your logic Chris. But this just highlights the problem with the way the NHL handles the draft. I think all 14 non playoff teams should go into a lottery with an equal weighting, pick all names out of the hat one by one, and that is the order they select in. That way teams that try hard to squeek into the playoffs are not penalized.
botta this subject is interesting.. get joe m to fake an injury
This is the most ridiculous argument I have ever heard. They should lose on purpose so they have the POSSIBILITY of drafting high because one of those two players MIGHT POSSIBLY save the franchise? Please tell me this is a gag blog. How do they go about losing on purpose? How does that help the development of your young talent? Yeah that’s what you want to do with young players, get them in a losing mentality so you break any confidence they may have aquired by playing well and winning.
As far as I’ve understood the problem with the win now-mentality under Milbury was that he traded away draft picks to get mediocre veterans on his team. Not that his coach tried to win every game, which should be the focus of every sports team (pro or not). Gotta agree with 7th Woman there. Snow is on the wheels now, let’s hope he has a vision whether he’s drafting 1st overall or 15th or 30th, when that time comes…
Jax, Blitz, Ulster - I agree with all your comments. The team should play hard, Garth shouldn’t make any “addition” moves (unless absolutely necessary - injuries) and we see how it works out. Can’t stomach a complete tank for a full season for a 1 or 2 pick. Would I be psyched if we tank and get one of those picks? Heck yeah baby!
Would someone care to explain how you would go about game planning to LOSE a game. Anyone? Please, I am so curious to see how you would tell your players to not try. Or maybe people think we should sit the scorers and bring the bridgeport team up? This is absolutely hilarious. Has anyone in here ever played hockey or any organized sport for that matter? Sheesh.
Last thing, I don’t know about anyone else but being an Islander fan has made me scared to even be the first team in the lottery. Who else has visions of our ball not coming up until the 5th turn? C’mon now, we have no luck so why should we believe the Isles would even get one of the first two picks.
Fun discussion but we are far from out from the Taveras, Hedman sweepstakes! We as Islander fans should know how the second half usually goes for us. Where ever we are at the end nobody knows. Would it be better for us to have the #1, #2 of course it would. If anything thats what we need. But that will only happen via circumstance and not from us packing it in.
Great article and comments too.
I’m willing to let the chips fall where they may with what we have (which seems to be constantly changing anyway). Who’s to say the franchise draft we’d get does well with whatever style is being played, works productively with his linemates, and stays healthy. Who’s to say we’re not mediocre in 2-3 years still anyway.
Our best bet is Go-Go taking them to game 7 in the 2nd round, and a shovel going in the ground.
David if we were last in the league we would get one of the two 1st picks we can only move back one spot in the lottery.
I don’t care what anyone says, and how happy you are with the Islanders. We NEED one of the top two picks. I don’t know how many times I can repeat or emphasize the fact that we truly NEED Tavares or Hedman. We don’t have a cornerstone guy, and that is something we desperately need. We land Tavares, and we are set at the center position for years to come. (Tavares, Bailey, Nielsen, Park, Thompson, Colliton) If we use the first four, that can rival many of the best teams! God help us fall!
Ulster County - Standing O for you, couldn’t have said it any better.
Remember, ESPN’s 2003 instant draft analysis said Jeff Carter would be a bust, Ryan Getzlaf had a ceiling as a 3rd-line center, and Tambellini was a better pick than Dustin Brown.
Play Too Win!
Compete With The Chance in a league mired in Parity!
Attempt to remove the stigma of a failed Culture of 15 straight years with out advancing out of the First round!
That Would be Fan-Tastic For starters!
Understand that Living for today is better then Living for tomorrow,
No One is guaranteed Tomorrow..
We are all day to day!
CB & Burkes points Valid, yet when I see a team that is only 3 games out of the 6th seed at the Quarter pole, I say find away to get there now, trade for Gaborik if we can ??
(If Healthy Thats a 1st rounder right there)
Play to Win ALWAYS! Never To Lose!
Believe in Snow if at The Allstar break we are still in range of the 6th seed!
Anything in Pro Sports is possible, why not us?
Why Not Now!
Lets Go Isles!
Hey David, we had the Bridgeport team up at the end of last year and for me it was the best part of the season. With the injuries we’ve had so far this year, I wouldn’t be surprised if the same thing happens this year.
LOL, so THAT’S how you get the smileys!
That’s for some of my past posts. Better late than never.
Billy Beane called it “80 to 82 win- hell” in baseball; the parallel works in hockey.
Not good enough to win; not bad enough to be a big winner on draft day.
Trivia question: name all the players picked #1 overall who played for the Islanders. Without looking, I count 7. Try to do this without looking at HockeyDB!!
Ooops…just checked…it’s 8.
Drafting mid-level prospects, and keeping the ever-turning free agency wheel in motion (bringing in more Jon Sims and Tom Poti’s) is not the recipe for success and bringing fans back. Fans do not pay to see players like these. Isles fans have not had a good reason to come to the box office since Ziggy was traded away.
I can’t possibly stress enough in my 100-word allowance the need for a franchise player on this team. Anything other than a 1st or 2nd overall pick next June will just be a further step into oblivion (or Winnipeg) for this franchise.
Botta, what complete nonsense. Since 1990 only one first pick in the NHL draft has won a Stanley Cup. That’s Vinny L who won the Cup ONCE.
What happened to the rest of the so called franchise saviors? Well, one is currently rehabbing his knee, while the rest of them are still trying for that elusive Cup.
It is the entire body of work that the draft begets not the so called sure thing……Sir William
I would have to agree Chris. I would say that the signing of Weight was one that gave us some wins, but cost us the first overall pick. No question you need those franchise players to win cups. Burke will most likely win again if he knows that
Chances are those two will be good NHL players but you never know who else from that draft could be a star. For example 1996 first two picks Chris Phillips respectable d-man but not a star and Zyuzin who’s in the KHL. Other people in the first round Dumont, Zubrus, Higgins, Sturm, and Briere also Sami Salo went in the 9th round. The point is it don’t matter what position you have it’s what you do with it.
just a sobering thought…
2000 draft order
1. NYI Rick Dipietro
2. ATL Dany Heatley
3. MIN Martin Gaborik
4. COL Rostislav Klesla
5. NYI Raffi Torres
When you have smart people in charge the draft can be the fastest way to respectability. When you have idiots in charge, that have the highest rated goalie prospect in their system, they dump him for another goalie, passing on Dany Heatley and Martin Gaborik.
Not that either of them has done anything either.
Building a franchise starts with a shrewd GM and a coach that can teach, lead and motivate. then you get (draft/sign) players that have IT and buy into the plan.
This team can draft whoever it wants for the next three years and they will not win as long as the circus tent is up.
I know that was too long… and pretty negative… but I just read, “does anybody think we can get through the first round of the playoffs with this lineup”… GOOD GOD!
Okay… I’m ready for my exile now.
I don’t think there is a circus tent around here. I think that with the exception of that injury policy that needs to go the Islanders have been much calmer than a few other teams this year. It’s no use living in the past, and I refuse to project Milbury’s sins onto Snow, especially since tightwad ownership contributed as much to his impatience as his own lack of talent.
The fact remains that the Islanders have a top goaltender, a solid system, and, as CB pointed out, a need to stay above the Cap floor. Weight, more than anything else, got us above the Cap floor, and I’d rather have signings like that than give long-term deals to marginal players who don’t deserve it. At this point we’re poised to offer big money to players that actually CAN help in the future.
Quick addendum: I don’t think there’s a circus tent around here ANYMORE, though you’d never believe that listening to the press from every other city.
Getting Gaborik=’s Franchise Player!!
Lets Go Isles.. Lets Go Islanders!
The Islanders are better then many , including oyur own fans want to admit!
how does this teams current level of play, translate into a 1st to 5th overall draft pick?
(pre-meditate) a losing Philosophy & Lose on purpose?… What?
Who is To say that anyone of them will ever outscore the Slovack ?
What about the Guys
(D.Weight top 20 NHL scoring) and others that are breaking their ass,
for the here & Now?
C’mon get Gaborik ,(world class talent)
A Game Breaker in The Mode Of Ziggy!
I’m On the Record….” I’ll drive Tambellini & even Okoposo (yes I said it) to The Airport.. fact is often stranger then fiction!
Lets Go Isles! Lets Go Islanders!
I disagree…a team in a rebuild that is only now beginning to restock a barren farm system shouldn’t give up assets for a guy like Gaborik. This is not the Smyth situation, where we were within striking distance of home ice in the playoffs and a few series wins would have done wonders for the fan base. I would absolutely target him if he hits UFA, but not for any cost beyond just money.
I absolutely love how we are all so eager to trade Tambellini for Gaborik, Khabibulin, Barker(?)… et al. Do you really think anyone would take him… let’s be serious!!!
DOC
Just a little note to everyone. Watch the upcoming World Junior tourney starting on Dec 26 and pay attention to Hedman/Taveras and let me know what you think. I have been following both and believe me, they are the goods. I am definitly rooting for them to tank, but at the same time wanting the younger guys to excel. Watching Sim, Guerin, Weight or anyone over 34 do well makes me sick. Weight will def give us a 1st pick in the draft next season, no question. Silly will as well…
It is quite comical. I love how the package on other boards is Gervais, Comrie, and a second. I mean really do we think other general managers in this league behave like our former one. Never going to happen unless we give up Okposo or bailey and our first. In other words ITS NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN! If it does I’ll be the first calling for Snow’s head.
While it would fantastic to add Hedman or Tavares, the most important thing for this franchise is to establish (re-establish?) the culture of winning. The best two organizations in the league the last 15 years has been Detroit and New Jersey. How many top 2 picks have they had in that time? Zero. DRAFTING well, DEVELOPING our picks, and HOLDING on to them this time (Bertuzzi, McCabe, Redden, Dumont, Luongo, Brewer, Connolly, Chara, Torres, Pyatt, etc.), while MAINTAINING STABILITY at the management level will create a solid foundation and a perennial contender.
Nick, you know I think highly of your opinion… but… The tent is up and the cannon is loaded.
1. Our #1 15 year deal goaltender may have ruined his career while being miked up at the all-star game. The most expensive “oh sh#t” in league history.
2. Gordon’s “system” is fun to watch… but please tell me you don’t turn off the TV, or leave the arena after 40 mins.
3. The highest rated prospects in our system have “2nd line upside”.
4. The last two drafts there were no D over 200lbs selected. And the ones that were in the system were all DUMPED in the off-season. Witt and Sutton and a whole lotta Rosie.
5. Blake Comeau is paying for a bad GM-Coach relationship right now. He gets to ride the bus while Thumbellini rides on the plane. That is a prelude to the future when you have a GM with more ego than conviction.
6. Our owner left his partner holding the bag for a crime you know he was behind.
7. In the face of all that he is trying to build a shell around the coliseum where there is STILL NO MASS TRANSIT ACCESS.
8. Nobody has the stones to stand up to Colin Campbell.
9. The players are getting beat up on NIGHTLY.
10. Don’t forget that the GM announced last year that he can’t get any players becasue his barn was falling apart. Proven by a flood in teh locker rooms, and the fact that they are really afraid to play Mitch Fritz at home becasue he leaves RYTS IN THE ICE.
…well… if that post doesn’t get me booted and loathed I don’t know what will.
Did I mention how much i like to watch Bergy, frans, Josh and Streit play.
As nice as it would be to have a tavares or hedman, superstars don’t always come in the first round.. I considered Ziggy Palffy a franchise player when he was here
I hear you westfall, but this year is the only exception. They need this draft and after this one they can truely build. Stability is here already. I’m not worried about that.
Disagree in Kind…
Smyth coreect is No Gaborik, hes seven years older & not about to have another 40 goal season!
Asset’s?
How about the unproven and under acheieving Tambellini & Okoposo
for a Porven goal scoring commodity with world class talent?
We are six points from the 6th seed the argument can certainly be made, that we can get in the Playoffs & make some noise with a sniper like him.
last point this team is neither a club in full rebuild right now,
(look at the Rooster)
Nor Too Old to accomplish anything with some help!
theres still enough in the system & on the current club to specualte there is improvement to be developed, thats already part of the Organization!
Could only Imagine how this would effect Weight, Hunter , Guerin… etc.. What a Boost it would be for the here & Now gang that plays in Uniondale!
Lets Go Isles.. Lets Go Islanders!
Some of it true but what was the point?
great post JP
Pride and Passion always like your enthusiasm but do you really think that Gaborik is the missing piece to get us to and out of the first round? You are going to have a hard time selling that. Hope our GM doesn’t agree with you!
Westfal NAILED IT… no matter who was herer before and who followed… we took two steps back in the category of STABILITY this year… just like we did when they fired Lavy for god knows why.
“Whoa, and a press roll drummer go, ballerina to-and-fro
Cartwheelin’ up on that tightrope with a cannon blast lightin’ flash
Movin’ fast through the tent Mars bent, he’s gonna miss his fall
Oh God save the human cannonball.”
Bruce should rename this song the Islander Circus Shuffle
Seriously, Pride and Passion, do you have any idea how much Gaborik gets hurt? I am not dealing with a 8mill a year player watching from the players box every night.. cough cough DP..
I really don’t think you guys watch other hockey besides Isles? The guy is never in the line up. Christ everybody bitches about Martinek. What if we had a 9 million dollar Martinek?
Before I call it a night, just a gentle prompt to our night-shifters to refer to our new Comment guidelines if you have not already seen them. Thank you, and good night…CB
Most Islander fans know what they are watching, we are not the Thrashers, Preds or Panthers. If the Isles get Taveras, watch everyone come out from the woodworks. Including me.
Than why is everybody willing to give up Okposo our first maybe Bailey for Gaborik. The guy is exciting but I have a hard time understanding that mind set. The guy is always injured. We were talking about Gaborik not Tavares from 81 on. Taveras would be huge for us no doubt,
Maybe hes not in the line-up because hes not happy with his enviroment as well..
there has been much chatter from his agnet that he is not wanting to play for them anymore!
Euros can be a touchey bunch.. yet when happy &motivated they can thrive…
you bring Gaborik to a cosmopolitan culture like we have here, he’d love life,
In turn I’m sure you would see a healthy return to allstar status!
Bottom line….
The Islanders Would request & analyze a full physical before signing damaged Goods!
If Hes Healthy?
What a Difference he would make here!
I have no doubt instant upgrade in Talent & crediability!
Just Curious what do you think the gang you root for right now, (to win i hope) would think if they took a lockeroom vote
(secret ballot if you will)
Think About it?
Lets Go Isles Lets Go Islanders!
No matter the dire implications we face. No matter how much at a disadvantage we really are in. No matter how bad our Coliseum gets. No matter how old or how inexperienced or how blue collar this team can be…I want to win.
Make the play-offs, advance to the next round, and I’ll be looking forward to next season.
unlike the old days, you can now sign a big time free agent if you don’t get what one in the draft…has Atlanta signed Kovalchuk long term yet? can’t believe he wouldn’t like NY better than ATL…and maybe Heatley is available through trade…short term, is it worth trading for Afinogenov? Buffalo can’t ask much for, he’s regularly sitting out
OK, Bailey and Okposo are not going any where, especially for Gaborik. Gaborik is a talent for sure. Interesting Minn is fine with partying ways with him. He has played a total of 2 games this year with a back injury. He could come in and be explosive but he could also be a major flop and disapointment for the franchise.
The Isles don’t need wingers, now or in the future. Okposo, Comeau, Bergy, Rhashinski, Figren, Petrov, Josenu just to name a few. The Isles do need top flight centers and big, talented, mean, d-men.
Is a Tavares-like player going to help this team? Of course, he’d help every team from 1st through 30th. But he isn’t the solution to all our problems. Its easy to point at Pittsburgh and say “As soon as they got Crosby they were a different team.” But in reality, they had YEARS worth of top 5 picks who all peaked at the same time. This years draft is very deep, and we will be able to get a damn good pick anywhere in the top 10. The higher the better, but in reality, I just want the team to go out there and play 100%. If they win, great, if they lose, thats ok too as long as the effort is there. If we start trying to position for draft picks, we’ll just develop bad habits that could haunt us for years.
That being said… I want to see Garrett Wilson in an Islanders uniform. Mostly because he is a really good friend of my brothers, but I also honestly believe he is going to be a really solid player. He won’t go in the first round, but maybe with our 3rd round pick.
Yeah I’m sure we are on Kvalchuks radar after he has played in the basement of the league for his entire NHL career. Atlanta is pretty cosmopolitan believe it or not, lived there for a while. Also lived in Manhattan for quite a while too and although Atlanta doesn’t offer as much its not far off. Who are we trading for these guys? I mean honestly the only prospects we have that anybody wants would be taking a step back. Do any of you guys really think we are going to be instant contenders with any of these players? Yeah fun to watch with you there but do you really think these guys especally Gaborik is going to carry us through the playoffs if we even make it?
They aren’t fine with parting ways with Gaborik they have been trying desperately to resign him till recently.
“There Is No Substitute For Victory”
Douglas MacArthur.
“You Play To Win The Game”
Herm Edwards
“I firmly believe that any man’s finest hour, the greatest fulfillment of all that he holds dear, is that moment when he has worked his heart out in a good cause and lies exhausted on the field of battle - victorious.”
Vince Lombardi
I grow SO weary of people clamoring for the Isles to tank the season in the delusional hope that by doing so some kind of Messiah will be delivered via the draft.
That is simply spineless, chickenchit (go ahead ban me) manure.
Hey Einsteins…..Snow could always TRADE UP for the number one pick come draft day if Christ or Obama is available.
Play to win…..nothing else..(Have I hit 100 words yet?)
Islander505:
It is amazing how your viewpoint (I agree with you 100% by the way) is in the minority.
Although I never liked Herm Edwards as a coach, I always liked that quote from him and his players “played” for him.
I don’t think Botta was advocating that the Islanders tank… but many of the posts on here seem to think that is what he was inferring. I think he was just saying that in the long run that a #1 or #2 pick would be better.
DOC
When was the last time a team won a Stanley Cup because of drafting a franchise player? The Penguins picked two franchise players in succession with top two picks plus Fleury before that. Not a realistic way to build a contender. Only two top two picks from the last 15 years have won a Stanley Cup: Pronger (after 13 years), Lecavalier, and Eric Staal whose team has not been in the playoffs since the Cup year. Then you have franchise players like Kovalchuk and Nash. Of course you don’t even have to pick in the top two to get an impact player, see Getzlaf (#19), Mike Richards (#24), Phaneuf (#9) etc.
For what it’s worth, there are several players behind the top two I’d be very excited to see the Isles pick next summer.
Gordon is doing what should be expected of this VTERAN team. And that’s what the Islanders are: a VETERAN team. The Islanders are not a “young” team. A VETERAN team like the Islanders should be competetive. The Islanders have more 30 plus players than any other team in the division except the Devils.
IM NOT WORRIED I STILL THINK THE ISLES WILL BE DRAFTING TOP 5 NEXT SPRING. LAST YEAR THEY WERE ABOVE .500 AT POINTS IN THE SEASON. I LOVE WATCHING THE ISLANDERS WIN BUT LETS BE REAL THIS IS JUST GOING TO LEAD TO MORE HEARTACHE. I SAY AT THE TRADE DEADLINE TRADE ALMOST ALL VETS. TANK THE LATE SEASON AND GET IN POSITION TO GET A FRANCHISE PLAYER. THE SEASON IS NOT EVEN A THIRD OVER THEY HAVE PLENTY OF TIME TO SUCK AGAIN.
I guess the “idea” is sound but my question is this…will I get a “we need to lose” discount on my season tickets as I sit through those “tanked” games? Sports are competition so I’d like to see my team compete,every night, every shift, every game. Let fate take care of the rest.
I firmly agree with Islander505, Doc, Westfall and the few others who see the folly or rooting for failure in order to get a top draft choice. Developing a winning culture is vital to long-term success. A top draft choice offers no guarentees, many fail or get injured all the time and sleepers surprise as well. It takes more than one player and if the cost of getting that one guy is being horrible on the ice than much more damage is being done. Yes there are several veterans on the squad right now but they are stop-gap, short-term guys here to hold the fort while the system gets restocked.
Good discussion. There is no silver bullet and I don’t think there is one surefire recipe that will guarantee a Cup. It will take good drafting, a good workable system that the players buy into, some cornerstone key players to build off of, team chemistry and a bit of luck. Way too early to talk about the draft.
I pay a hefty sum to go to games. I want to see competitive hockey now. There are no guarantees with draft picks. Give me good effort and entertaining hockey every night and we let the draft chips fall where they may.
Just a thought… The only thing the #1 spot gets you is a player with boat loads of potential, and a 20 other guys who couldn’t beat any other team in the standings.
Make winners out of what you have, then you’ll have SOMETHING to build on.
I’m JPinVA, and I approve this message.
I realize my comment may never be read all the way down here…but…I must respectfully disagree with CB…The Isles are only 2 points out of a top 2 pick for this coming draft…Yes they are entertaining, but by no means are they a lock to not have a top 2 pick…It is too early to make such bold predictions, let’s re-visit in February.
CB Once again you stir the pot for the blogger community. Let’s enjoy the team’s moderate success. I would rather them snare the eighth seed, than watch the draft next year where management completely botches the picks anyway. Come on ‘boys keep forechecking you aint going down this year.
I cant believe that some people think that tanking actually happens or should happen at the 20-30 game mark of the season .
and when teams have a firesale at the deadline -they tend to actually play a little better with the youth injection
wake up people
What is up with this NHL suspension of Avery? Sure, what he said may have been crude and low-class, but shouldn’t that be an issue for his team to address? No more trash talk in the NHL is the message…and I guess that means no more calling Crosby a princess or calling Brodeur a fatso.
Actually Greg, my read is that they wanted to make sure Phaneuf, Bertuzzi, Glencross, Iginla, Nystrom, or someone else didn’t take Avery’s head off as a result. It’s one thing to trash talk about the game, but that’s clearly not what he did, and it could have gotten ugly. Maybe they were trying to proactively prevent someone from beating the tar out of him.
JP - you’re definitely entitled to your opinion. I just feel the circus tent is lifting.
Otherwise, I’m with 505, doc, and the others. As I said, I know the 1st overall pick would be the best thing for the team, but I can’t and won’t root for them to lose.
so, if we’re not in the hunt for a top 5 pick at the end of this season and have not made it to the playoffs, then what? Garth has told us that it’s hard to get trades and UFAs over here… so how do we score that big player? Just cross your fingers and play the draft? try to amass as many picks as possible like the last draft?
Yes, Timm- thats exactly what the Isles do. There is no magical E-Z-fix solution.
timm -the nhl standings have been so close lately that its almost a crapshoot where the isles would pick in the 09 draft -anwhere from 3rd to 15 th really is a fair judgement right now
I think there was barely 5-7 points between tb’s final record last year and the isles
So Gordon, a first year coach, is supposed to tell guys like Weight, Guerin, etc. to lose? He’d probably never get another coaching job. Snow should have probably went with one of the retread coaches if that was the ultimate goal, or re-hire Stirling. If we finish last, great - yes it would absolutely help. Frankly, I enjoy sports more when a group of no-name “losers” excel against all odds.
Nick,
I’m pretty sure Chuck Wangon and “Six feet of” Snow won’t let me down. Whether it is not sitting out the hipster for a full year to recover, or trading the #3 overall to get 2 second rounders and two 3rd rounders. Maybe it’ll be replacing Trottier with another new england goalie.
Whatever it is, it’s gonna happen.
I’m still on the fence with Go-go. I hope he grows from what I think (big deal) are glaring holes in his over-all view of the game.
Sitting Fitz in Jersey was inexcusable.
Not understanding the limitations of your personnel is another fast track to the first pick.
..and definitely put me in the group that wants to see this team win, or at least lose with dignity.
Regardless of where we may finish, this team shoulld try to accumulate additional first rounders by trading guys like Silly, Weight and even Toedrag, if he gets healthy, at the deadline. Package some of our accumulated 2nd and third rounders to get it done. Perhaps we can accumulate another 2 mid-first round picks that way to add to our own top 10.
To IFinUC (#43), David (#48), and Spinner (#104): well said, all. I’m with you, & plan to enjoy every single win that gets squeezed out of this team.
It’s funny that Burke apparently left his short-term memory in Anaheim. HIS 2007 Cup champs had these “top” picks - those made by their organization - in the lineup: Getzlaf (#19), Perry (#28). That’s it. Look it up. All the rest (Pronger, Niedermayer, Giguere, etc): free agents - some of the undrafted variety.
Keep at it w/the new guidelines, CB - ’cause apparently not everyone’s read them yet.
Question–I know we can’t trade our vets now due to cap floor issues, but does that concern still exist in the latter part of the season. I’m guessing that we still have cap floor issues in March because salaries are pro-rated. Is that correct?
Re: Anaheim’s top players, should have read “free agents - some of the undrafted variety - and trade acquisitions.”
We won’t get first rounders for players who (A) are far from elite, and (B) will be FAs at the end of the year. It just won’t happen. When you have time, check out what Phoenix got for Comrie the last time he was traded.
Comment 108 is really the most relevant post. We are only 1/4 through the season. There is some potential but to say we will not have a top 5 pick is jumping the gun to say the least. CB did say in a earlier blog that this franchise might not make it without a top 1-5 pick next year (correct me if I am wrong) for those who keep asking him his opinion.
Lavioletee was fired!!!!
Hire him as an assistant now
excuse me Laviolette. Bad typo.
Isles hockey…..mediocre since 1993.
Doesn’t matter if they finish dead last as they’ll probably pick a goalie in the draft. Sarcasm off.
Why would Laviolette want to be our assistant coach?
Better than being a head coach without a job.
It’s just wishful hope.
He is under contract and still getting paid. Yeah sure it would be nice but don’t think he is going to play second fiddle to anyone let alone Gordon after winning a cup. Its nice to dream though!!!
Here we are, two games under .500, which could easily be 2 games over .500 and in the top 8. We have Baily playing well and staying the whole season, we have J-Mac playing as one of the best keepers in the league, we’ve played very well against and won against some of the better teams in the league with a new system (God I hate that word) that is getting praise around the league, the playoffs are definately within grasp, and we’re talking about tanking the season. To Hell with that. You want to know what can “sav