ARRESTED DEVELOPMENT
No Lighthouse progress made by Hempstead
There is no discernible progress over the last several months to report on the Lighthouse Project, Charles Wang and Scott Rechler’s transformation of the Nassau Veterans Memorial Coliseum and surrounding property.
Conversations over the last week with sources on all sides of the Islanders arena project - Nassau County, the Town of Hempstead and the Lighthouse - revealed scant optimism that a groundbreaking ceremony is possible for the summer of 2009. For the last few years, that was a goal of the project’s leaders.
Sources said the following:
- There has been little meaningful communication over the last six months between the Town of Hempstead and Nassau County about the development of the project.
- Despite being urged by some leaders to fast-track the project as a boon for business and jobs in the spiraling economy, the Town of Hempstead has been slow to take necessary steps to get a shovel in the ground. The project, estimated to cost between $3-4 billion, is expected to create 50,000 jobs during the construction phase and generate $70 million of annual tax revenues. Asked one source: “Why doesn’t the Town seem motivated to get this done”?
- An unwillingness to “reach across the aisle” by Republicans and Democrats has the project at a standstill. One source even theorized that Kate Murray, a Republican who is the Town of Hempstead Supervisor, may run against Tom Suozzi, a Democrat, when the Nassau County Supervisor seat is up for re-election in November.
Blogger and PB contributor B.D. Gallof reported on Dec. 22 a source saying Lighthouse construction should begin in summer of 2010. When Gallof contacted a project spokesperson, they said, “Lighthouse stands by the 2009 start date.”
With our latest information, here’s our take: 2009 is an extreme longshot and, right now, without evidence of any significant progress it is difficult to make any guarantees of 2010.
*
Point Blank readers have forwarded to us the following response letter from Town of Hempstead attorney Joseph Ra that they have received recently when inquiring about the status of the Lighthouse Project. Consider it the Town’s current official position.
Re: Lighthouse Project
Thank you for contacting the Town of Hempstead concerning the Lighthouse Project. As you may know, this proposed project concerns not only the upgrading of the Nassau Veterans Memorial Coliseum but substantial development of the 150 acres surrounding the arena, including RexCorp Plaza on the south side of Hempstead Turnpike. The proposed development consists of the following:
1. Nassau Coliseum Upgrade and Renovation – 928,000 sq. ft. (435,000 sq. ft. existing);
2. 300 hotel rooms added to the 612 units at the Marriott site;
3. An increase of 200,000 square feet of convention space added to the 113,000 square feet that currently exists;
4. The creation of an additional 1,000,000 square feet of office space;
5. Development of 500,000 square feet of retail space; and
6. The construction of 2,306 residential units.
As I’m sure you can appreciate, a project of this magnitude has significant environmental consequences. Pursuant to the New York State Environmental Quality Review Act, the Town Board of the Town of Hempstead has passed a resolution that allows the environmental review process to move forward.
As suggested by the Act, two public meetings were held in May 2008. At these meetings the Town sought input from other levels of government, various community groups and citizens on areas of concern. Among the items considered were the impact of the project on air quality, water availability, the number of parking spaces provided, storm water quality, energy capacity and traffic congestion.
In the coming months further action will be taken at which point the developers will prepare and submit a Draft Generic Environmental Impact Statement which will be tailored to address the environmental concerns identified through the scoping process.
While the process is time consuming, the Town is working with the developers to keep this application moving forward while ensuring that the concerns of our community are given proper consideration.
Very truly yours,
JOSEPH J. RA
Town Attorney
*
As you might expect, the letter is very lawyerly, political, pretty standard fare. But it may say a lot about Kate Murray’s view of the Lighthouse Project that while the letter makes a point of detailing its complex scale, the response doesn’t contain a single word about the project’s potential benefits to Town residents.
Nothing new from practice today. Expect Joey Mac against the Rangers on Tuesday. Feedback on Lighthouse only in this Comment. Continue the discussion on NYI hockey in next thread. Thanks…CB
166 Responses to “ARRESTED DEVELOPMENT
No Lighthouse progress made by Hempstead”
Please Wait
If I ever win the big lottery, I’m moving from Cape Breton Island,to the Lighthouse on Long Island….lol I’ve been to some NHL rinks in Canada and the US and NVMC has some great seats and I loved seeing all those banners up there, but it was trumped by the ACC in Toronto and the Rexall in Edmonton. Boston has a nice facility too better than edm. Free Tavares, Free the Lighthouse.
OK, what can “we” do (we = the people that want to see the Islanders still be the Islanders next season) do to get Kate Murray and the rest of the politicans to understand we want this and if we don’t get it, we will do everything we can to see that she is out of a job come November?
my suggestion is to bombard kate murray with e-mails and phone calls threatening to vote against murray and any of her hacks in the next election if they don’t get this done.
http://townofhempstead.org/content/home/contact.html
By the way, CB, what do we have a better chance of seeing, the Lighthouse or the Islanders talking to you again?
Rexall place in Edmonton is almost as old as NVMC. It received a bit of a facelift in the 90’s, but nothing close to what is being proposed under the Lighthouse. In fact, the new Oilers owner has plans to construct a new building. And, big surprise, the plan is to build it along with office, retail and residential space.
Someone correct me if I’m wrong, but I thought that Hempstead couldn’t proceed until Rexcorp submits the environmental study, which they have not yet done (but are apparently close). I think once the study is submitted we will see some movement.
The town is full of crap. Are they waiting until Mr. Wang puts a gun to its head? Can not believe how long this is taking, one way or the other.
The question is. What is holding up the process??? IT appears that TOH is has done its part and now it’s up to the State’s Environmental Review … Are there individuals accountable on the State side? It seems like a HOT Potato subject between politicians … Murray and Suozzi both claim to have done their parts to see it “fast tracked”… and now it’s “out of their hands”.
The best person on here that keeps a pulse on the situation is Nick Classic … Nick seems optimistic of a positive solution … the issue now seems to be the timeline.
Reading this makes me even more depressed after the Giants game. CB, what can the fans do along with emailing Murray and the town? Will she listen to people if they are not residents of the town?
Only in the Town of Hempstead can someone want to spend billions of dollars to build a project of this magnitude and have it take this long to even be approved …the politicians on Long Island should be ashamed of themselves …
Look at all of the tax payer money went to building new stadiums for the Mets and Yankees. The Giants/Jets are also getting a new stadium.
Is Wang even asking for tax payer money for this project? This is an absolute joke …
It is time for Wang to start looking for buyers. This has gone on long enough, and for this project not to advance at a time when people are talking about all sorts of public works projects, well, just wait until this project collapses and there’s nothing there.
Out here in Arizona Tempe, Mesa, and Scottsdale screwed around with both football and hockey stadium plans … which were moved to Glendale instead, and a cost to everyone except perhaps the Cardinals (Coyotes attendance is due in part to the distance to drive to the facility).
If Long Islanders don’t start putting pressure on people now, they can share in the blame. It’s time for a little Overspeed from the fans.
Its Plaxico’s fault that we are seeing no progress with the Lighthouse!
Blame Burress!
But seriously, I think Charles Wang should really consider buying the New Jersey Nets if they become available. I think Wang once had an offer on the table to buy the Nets but he said it took too long to get a response so he took back his offer.
If anything will get this project going it could be with the help of another professional sports organization.
We knew the environmental review process would take a very long time - I spoke to a few Nassau legislators and they all said they didn’t expect the review to be finished before this June. I always thought the 2009 target might be a long-shot, but that doesn’t mean things are at a standstill.
We need to show up, in FORCE, at the public comments, which should be occurring sometime around February-April. We need to do that and, in other coordinated ways, show that this is something that Town of Hempstead residents want. Brooks Simpson’s last point is exactly correct, it’s OUR fault if we don’t make our voices heard and prove that this is something we want and need. I will be working on a few things over the coming weeks to educate people on the process and what we as fans and citizens can do, and I’ll link to it rather than co-opting CB’s valuable space.
I wondered about the political angle of this, namely whether the Republican Town Board would want to give the Democratic County Executive a big victory in an election year. However, if Kate Murray actually did want to run against Suozzi, wouldn’t she have to take a public position on the project?
Bring on the next owner. The carousel continues…
Nick … Thanks for the update … I look forward to your update … you have my email.
I do remember before the summer time last year you said that the Enviro Review was a long process and that we should be prepared to hunker down this winter and sweat it out since July ‘09 would be a very ambitious time line for shovels in the ground … perhaps we are getting a little jumpy since the seaons is pretty much done … and it will be anxious moments until we know where we are drafting … getting chippy on the boards.
it’s very possible that the only reason murray doesn’t want to approve this is so that she has some major issue to run against suozzi on which their opinions differ. very sad that she cares more about her political well being than she does about the lives of her constituents.
this is taking forever. cant wait for it to get done. its gunna be sweeet
you can bet your bottom dollar that this project is going to be a partisan politics hangup.
rediculous.
considering how tax revenue is going down faster than the giants offense today, you would think hempstead would be jumping at the opportunity to increase tax revenue at a time when they are operating in the red.
another example of big government being big clueless and big retarded.
Sorry one last thing I neede to say…Does anybody here when they pay good money to see an NHL game actually want to see a game?? Cause I do. I do not want to go to an NHL game and see a bunch of comic book super hero’s Spraying an Islanders Intern wearing a Panthers jersey with silly string. Or some girls doing a dance routine in the stands that is dumb and senseless….oh i read the thing about them waiting for a large mat to be delivered so they can do a better routine on the ice. Gimmie a break come on I want to see NHL hockey on the ice. The problem with the Islanders is that they have become so bad it is not about hockey anymore, it is about stupid gimmicks plain and simple.
Its scary to think that these are the idiots who make important decisions around here.
“The project, estimated to cost between $3-4 billion, is expected to create 50,000 jobs during the construction phase and generate $70 million of annual tax revenues. Asked one source: “Why doesn’t the Town seem motivated to get this done”? ”
That says it all right there. Everyone stands to make so much money from this project that its mind boggling its even taken this long at all. But no, everyone wants to make sure they get their cut so instead its just going to take forever and a half to finally get somewhere. Just think that its taken Wang 10 years now just to get this point.
Ridiculous.
heh , on satellite hotstove last night they were saying some teams are about to simply FOLD .
tb , phx …..
Typical politicians taking forever with legislative BS. I’d rather have Murray come right out and say she doesn’t support it.
NY politics are a joke. All they can agree upon is higher taxes for the rest of us.
KP … sounds like you are talking about is NJ.
Aim (20)… I think this is a big reason why the team is in so much trouble. Yes, the team did incredibly well in the 80’s and was able to have some success. However, to conflate the NYC market with the LI market is a mistake.
Without a playoff series win since 1993 and some terrible teams, in a market which includes, and competes against, the huge money NY Rangers and a run-down arena with difficult public transportation access, the original Islander fan interest has waned. When we take into account the stranglehold the Islanders are under with their lease to the Coliseum, and the consistent loss of money by every Islanders owner I can remember, we can expect to see the Islanders be cash-strapped and thus talent-strapped until things can turn around.
Is Nassau County convinced that the Lighthouse project is worth it to them? Clearly not. And, to be entirely honest, they have every reason to be skeptical given the last 15 years. With the Islanders as a centerpiece in negotiations, I would not be very interested in the product.
I’m a huge Isles fan, but let’s take off our rose-colored glasses and look at reality.
This is incredible. I have been calling Murrays office and getting no useful answer. I think we have to contact our local politicians to let them know that their job is on the line with fans who want this to move forward. There is no excuse for it to take this long.
Mike, you made one large error in that post…Nassau County has already approved it and wants it moved forward as quickly as possible. However, the Town of Hempstead controls zoning for the site, so nothing can be done until they change the zoning and sign off on the final project scope. The County clearly gets it, and I for one believe that the Town will soon if it doesn’t already.
Jim, agreed, and that’s part of what I want to work on. This is a voting issue for me, and I will make it my business to kill the career of any politician who tries to kill the Lighthouse. I can’t imagine we’re the only ones, and we need to have our voices heard.
I remember talking to Joe Ra one time at the Town. He said they wanted to make sure that more people than just Islander fans would benefit from the project. This amazed me because the public hearings in May/June attracted people who wanted the project in the worst way and didn’t even flinch when Bossy was called up to say a few words. Numbers are the only statistic politicians care about, and since there’s no organized opposition it’s clear that we have at least a silent majority in favor of the project. We now need to start showing instead of just telling.
These long island political hacks are going to send this team straght to Hamilton, Ontario; Las Vegas or Kansas City. Just my gut, but I don’t see any way this project gets done given the pace to date and the apparent lack of interest from the Town of Hempstead politicians. Wang is going to have to do what the Penguins did and use whatever leverage he has by threatening to move the team, etc. Wang should be on a plane to tour the new arena out in KC tomorrow. Only then will these idiots in the Town of Hemstead feel any pressure to do something (instead of blaming the State or the Feds or whoever else they are trying to throw under the bus to distract from their inaction), and even then its still unlikely.
Fair enough. But, exchange “Nassau County” for “T of H”, and I’m pretty confident in those points.
As many of you know I live in Florida and am not familar with the political figures. From a distance it seems obvious that many people are playing politics with this. All it is doing is increasing the cost of the project, hurting the local citizens and the local and state economy.
Murray is definetly putting the squeeze on someone for something but what it is I do not know. I think this is a case of Charles Wang being way too nice. Let’s see some TV ads and public campaign highlight the benefits of the project ans asking why Murray insists on stopping this project (until it suits here) and potentially costing Long Island it’s hockey team.
Mz. Murray I got news for you if you cost LI their hockey team and this project you are going to create a massive negative economic impact and you’ll be lucky to hold the job of librarian.
The Lighthouse plan does not allow for public transportation which makes the plan a failure.
Read the documentation about the project before saying things like that.
This is depressing. How could one blame Wang if he decides to move this team? I couldn’t, though it’d break my heart.
Jon #2 (sorry CB, I hope I can get an exemption from the 4 comments on this thread), in a nicer way than I said it earlier…They did that on purpose because Long Island is infected with NIMBYism. I always thought it would be smart of them to plan for every contingency rather than marry it to a particular transportation option. Think about it: if they proposed the Lighthouse with, say, a light rail line that went through all the major points of interest in that area, the project is dead if the light rail goes away. It makes more sense given the proximity of GARDEN CITY and the myriad transportation options to get the whole project approved and then worry about the best way to serve it.
In addition, it’s flawed to assume the whole thing will go up overnight. We won’t really see any other development on that site until the renovated Coliseum is finished, which means there will be at least 3 years to answer the transportation question in a satisfactory way.
Chris, Do you know of any organized opposition to the Lighthouse project by any group?
Somewhere along the line - Wang has to draw a line in the sand.
If either political party is going to use the Lighthouse project as a pawn in the political chess game, they do so at their own peril.
I just wish that I was a T.O.H. resident - and had an actual vote to cast in this situation.
Pat
Pat - I can tell you from going to the hearings and talking to many parties involved that there is none. In fact, a lovely local group called the Long Island Progressive Coalition has been loudly organizing support for the project, even handing out YIMBY stickers to people as they walked into the hearings last June. I didn’t take one because our group has its own identifier, but I saw a lot of people who did.
Chris Botta: If the Environmental Impact Study has not yet been completed and handed in to the Town of Hempstead, I dont understand what anyone is expecting them to “do”. Thats what they are waiting for… if its not done yet, then I dont understand what “discernible progress” anyone is expecting in the meantime.
Kate Murray is a disgrace and every time she has been voted in I simply scratch my head in amazement. I am so sick of the republican stranglehold on the TOH. WAKE UP PEOPLE! I am a republican and I cannot stand them any longer! Time to start voting for democrats just to send a message.
Nick Classic (33):
It would not be wise to consider a mistake made between political jurisdictions as some kind of overarching intellectual error. I granted your correction; this is enough for the validation of your point.
I didn’t think it was an over-arching intellectual error, that was directed at Jon #2 who dubbed the whole thing a failure over the transportation issue.
Folks: I am an accountant. I specialze in REITs, real estate development (construction), and real estate investors who own rental property.
What we have here is a case of the “government being the problem” (pardon me while I steal Ronald Reagan’s thunder). But it is true. Business programs are held up by “regulations and oversight” (IE: envrionmental studies) that take so long to complete and cost so much that it impedes progress, costs jobs, and causes business (like the Islanders) to move to less regulated states or fold all together.
Why do you think I left New York State? Why do think there is a brain drain in New York State (why are the youth leaving)? The sad thing is those youth leave and bring with them their North East philosphies and invade the mountain west and south and recreate this regulatory crap that has stalled NY’s and other New England state economies.
Life would never be the same for me if the Islanders left. I could never cheer for another team again. But I couldn’t plan Mr. Wang if he moved West. Charles if you read this, I suggest Portland or even Salt Lake City.
I still don’t understand why Wang wants a renovated arena and not a new one. So far the only reasons I’ve heard are the great sight lines and no place to put the debris from the existing coliseum if they tore it down. What’s the real reason? Anyone know?
BP: Republicans are the one’s who fight “regulatory oversight”. For the most part they are a solution and not a problem. (Caveat: I don’t know Kate Murray - I am 3500 miles away: she could be a babay boomer rhino republican, so you could be right that she is blocking it)
The main problem the Islanders have are with “Federal” and “State” EPA regulations. Sorry but a fact and not opinion. But I am not here to advocate for a particular party. If you wanna get educated about this shit I urge you to look at all of the local, county, state, and federal permits you have to file just to start a business in NY State and then you’ll get a better understanding of what Wang is up against.
A good place to start: is start a fictious company and go to the town first and then the county and then the state and see how much paperwork you have to file and the fees they collect from you to get permission to start a business. Then all the steps they tell you we have to do to become “legal”.
It will be enough to make you sick. And it will be enough to have you qouting Thomas Paine’s “Common Sense” ala 1776.
technically we are getting a new arena, they tear it down and then re-use the parts so it is eco-friendly. it looks pretty cool though.
All I can say is…….WELCOME TO OUR NEW HOME!
Nick classic, is there any kind of organized petition that people can sign? You said before it might come down to a numbers thing in terms of support so why not start an online petition and get some names on there? I know I’d be putting my name on one if it existed
Guys in order to win this war letter writing and phone calls are great but it won’t get the job done. All that politicians care about is the public perception. Go down there with signs and protest outside Ms. Murray’s office a few times, get a Kate Murray sucks chant going during some of the home games, call into radio & tv shows (not just sports) and call this woman out and this stuff will happen much sooner.
I really think it is time to say goodbye to Nassau County. If that moron Kate Murray would rather see a mini-mall go there instead, then move the team to Queens or Brooklyn. It is obvious the Town does not care about the economic impact of the project so why should Wang care about the money the Islanders bring the Hempstead. Say goodbye and build a complex near Shea/Citi Field.
http://www.lighthouseli.com/support
There are sample letters on their website. There are quite a few useful links there.
The powers that be in Nassau and Hempstead town seem to be out to kill this project via inertia — to drag things out so long that it will go away,
If I were Charles Wang, with six years left to go on the worst lease for the worst building in the NHL, I would make sure I have backup plans (he may well have already done this). I’d start with Suffolk County, which would allow me to keep that megabucks Fox TV deal (the biggest asset the team owns). There’s more land out there, and likely a lot less red tape/political crap.
I give Wang (and Sanjay Kumar) credit for buying the Isles — I believe they would be gone otherwise. I believe he has lost actual money over the years, though not nearly as much as media reports have said. He made a horrible mistake keeping Mike Milbury as long as he did, and another major error running Neil Smith (who wanted the job desperately) out on a rail. The jury is still out on Garth Snow, a bright guy and good man.
But Wang is no saint. He got out of CA before the s–t hit the fan, tried to take money he wasn’t entitled to while he was there, and often seems to have no idea what he’s doing with the team. However, as a Nassau County resident and hockey fan, I hope he finds a way to keep the Islanders on Long Island. This isn’t Atlanta or Nashville or Florida — this is the home of the only US-based team to win four Cups in a row. To see this team move if there’s an alternative would be a disgrace.
UNH Steve: From what Ive been told, sending in a letter directly to the TOH representatives is much better than signing some petition. Check out the link 7thWoman put up.
By 2015, this proud stories franchise will be relocated to Hamilton, Kansas City, or Seattle. My son will be 9, ironically the age when I became a fan in 1978.
Jon (Post #32) - As I’ve stated before…everyone in Nassau County is in favor of better public transportation as long as someone else utilizes it. You see, if “they” take the public transportation that is available, then “we” wouldn’t be sitting in traffic in “my” car. You see how it works?
The LightHouse Project is at the environmental impact part. What’s there to impact? The entire site is covered with asphalt!
IMO - it is just the ToH flexing thier muscle to show the county that the site is under their domain, and to show the residents of the surrounding areas that they are looking out for their “quality of life” (traffic, congestion, noise, etc). To that end, I do not believe that this project, as it currently stands, will ever go through, although I’d LOVE to see it come to fruition.
I posted this on the previous thread. Defenitly relevant to post title.
All the islander fans who say they will move to KC or Vegas, Hamilton (insert any other city) does not understand what is going on here. This franchise is not moving. Ask yourself this: The LH project is now in its 8th yr? Wang started talking about this when he bought the team in 2000. We are going on a decade now. So if the franchise was in such dire straits and a new building with luxury boxes were waiting with Wang’s name on it, why hasnt he moved the team yet? Why bother with this LH nonsense? He could have moved the team at any point. Nassau county knows this. They know the team is not going anywhere which is why they are taking their time with the LH project. This is a cat and mouse game between Wang and the county. Why would wang continue to hold onto something that loses him money? Out of the goodness of his heart and generosity to LI? I think not. Here is why I believe the Islanders will never move whether wang owns or sells to someone else:
1. Cablevision. The isles have the best deal in the NHL.
2. NY market. Say what you want but this is still NY. All islander fans are fans of the other NY teams. Yanks, mets, jets, Giants, Knicks, Nets and we carry those attitudes towards the islanders. This is not some outpost in the middle of nowhere and that NY vibe has an allure that owners love. When the islanders won they were splattered all over the back pages and when they won cups they were on the front and back.
3. Islander country is alive and well. I believe Logan had on his blog that PB had over 600 posts in one day!! so much for dormant franchise and being irrelevant. I can picture the islander marketing dept doing back flips. Oh and by the way they watch that stuff.
So there are still strong foundations right here on LI and this team is going nowhere. Some portion of the LH deal will get done in time. I dont think Wang will get the whole enchalada, probably he will get the NVMC redone and a new convention center and a downsized shopping plaza. Which is all I care about. This team needs to start winning and hoepfully a new foundation is being poured for the future. Wang and Snow need to get this right. Time will tell. A player like Tavares would do wonders for us. Lets go Islanders.
Question?
Why does Wang have to wait for “shovel in the ground” to start the renovation phase? There is no new construction and it is the building itself that is the focal point. Kate Murray already said that she apporved and was in favor of getting the buillding renovated so why cant we at least start to do that? Long journeys start with one step. Wang could have had the building renovated by now and continue to work on the other projects included in the LH deal. This makes no sense.
Aim you hit it right on the head. FA dont want to play here because it has become a dog and pony show and Wang has let us down because he did not build a team and it is clearly obvious he wants a real estate deal not the stanley cup!
Wang is the owner and I have to deal with that. If the LH project should fall through then Wang should consider moving the project into suffolk county. I know back in 2005 there was a big story in Newsday to build it on the old Pilgram state grounds. Sounds perfect to me, accessible right off the LIE, and you can tie the arena into the GI-NORMOUS outlet
center right there in Deer Park. I say screw the TOH and Nassau. Bring the Islanders out to suffolk.
Sorry Nick but I am going to start a group to lobby the islandes to build the whole thing in suffolk. Just kidding. But it is not as crazy as it sounds. “if you build it they will come”. Lets go Islanders
BRING THE LH TO SUFFOLK. BRING THE LH TO SUFFOLK
nick classic, thanks for all the info and for following this so closely. keep us posted on what we can do and when the public hearings are. i honestly think that the town will absolutely be shooting itself in the foot if they kill this project. they would be destroying lots of badly needed jobs and tax dollars. and the nimby’s haven’t appeared so it seems like most residents want this project to go ahead. i really hope that the delay is only b/c of the environmental review and that the town really does get it. kate murray’s political career will be no more if she doesnt’ get it.
Just asking - but is Kate Murray a closet Ranger$ fan ?
Queens, Brooklyn, Suffolk, Kansas City or Las Vegas. Where will the Isles open the 2015 season?
I have been working in commercial real estate development for over 10 years. First as a lender, now as an owner. I hate to be the one to point this all out, but there are a few things everyone should prepare themselves for. Bother the officials all you want, but even if this project was approved by the town/county tomorrw, it will never happen in its current form, and it is probably 5-8 years before anything of any magnitute happens. There is simply no money in the system to finance it, and likely to be none in the near future. If project cost $4BB, in the past 5 years, 3-3.5 billion would be financed through bank and bonds. Now, they would be lucky to get 1.5-2 billion, and probably due to sheer size, would not get anywhere near that, if anything at all. One need not look further than what Bruce Ratner is going throuhg on Atlantic Yards…and that project is much more viable being so close to Manhattan. As a result, unless Wang/Rechler are ready to write a $2-$3 billion dollar check from there own pocket, project won’t happen in its current form and will need to be massively scaled down. Futher, the Islanders were probably a loss leader, meaning the profit from the rest of the project made up for losing money on the islanders. Now, with current economic climate, prospects for those other components are dim; therefore project will not get done in current form.
Have to go, but will detail this furthre tomorrw, with some specific questions Chris can ask the islanders from business/real estate perspective in order to flush this out.
My bet is that the conversation with the town turns very difficult in the next 12-24 months and Wang turns up the heat with some serious threats. This could be the silver lining in this situation.
Sorry to be buzzkill
Quick answers based on talking to people…
1. Click on the link with my name, it goes to a petition supporting the site. 7th Woman also gave us the link to the form letters on the Lighthouse site.
2. The SEQR (State Environmental Quality Review)process is, as our accountant friend said, notoriously long and arduous. This is actually a normal timeline when you consider the final application wasn’t filed until December of 07 and the review didn’t start until June 08.
3. The Coliseum itself is not new construction and would be hundreds of millions of dollars cheaper to renovate.
4. As we discussed in a previous Lighthouse thread, why should Wang go ahead with the Coliseum when everything else is up in the air? He’s lost millions of dollars (HIS money, not OUR money, I know I’d be livid if I felt like I was flushing money down the toilet) since he bought the team, so there’s the “commitment” some people are questioning. If he agrees to spend $400 million to renovate the arena without the rest of the project in place, it just gives the Town of Hempstead an opening to kill everything else, and there goes Wang’s plan to actually make his money back.
5. The Suffolk argument is useless at this point, and anybody who constantly brings it up is not helping. I’m not trying to be harsh, just pointing out that this whole pain-in-the-ass process is mandated by state law, so instead of getting around it we’d just move the dial back to 0 and start all over again.
I love the fact that the yankees are spending 1 billion dollars on a new stadium. yet they are asking the city for an aditional 370 million for overruns. The mets are financed by Citi who fired how many thousands recently. All for a sport that last about 6 months
And then there is the lighthouse project, minor league baseball, revamped coliseum, parking, lirr stop, (soccer team?) hotels….there are 12 months of activities that can be planned and hosted. Which is additional revenue. Considering this country voted for George W. Bush twice we are doomed. Islanders relocate to Kansas City. BUT in order to secure her future Kate Murray fights to have the team colors, name and banners and (mascot hey how can we forget sparky)saved just incase the league wants to expand back to long island.
Makela24 - Not a buzzkill at all. It’s sort of the reality of situation Islander fans have to face. Islander hockey hasn’t been about the draft, the playoffs, winning, line combos…many Islander fans still for whatever reason like to talk about that stuff, but the reality is John tavares very well maybe playing in Las Vegas. Wang stated pretty recently I think over the summer, if there is no ground breaking by July 2009 the Isles are pretty much done.
where did Wang say that? provide a link or i call bull$hit. It would have been much easier to get this project going if the isles had been really good over the last 4 years. Look at the yanks. There success and fan attendance in the bronx ended all the talk of the yanks moving anywhere. we need to win. The Isles winning would have moved everything along since the team would have been much more popular and important to the area. Nobody but 5K diehards would care if they moved now.
Charles Wang said absolutely nothing like that. (Post 63) He’s been like a sphinx on the idea of the Islanders moving or being “done.” I’m not saying that their future here is almost nonexistent without a new building, but I’d love to see the basis for such a quote. There isn’t one.
Charles wang did indeed say, the lease expires in 2014, the project takes 5 years to complete…the groundbreaking must start in 2009. If u want a link go to google.com & search for it.
guerin13 is right on. we have to apply pressure to our local elected officials. here is a link to the town board.
contact your council person immediately.
http://townofhempstead.org/content/tb/council.html
Make sure Kate Murray knows how we feel. Everyone light up her line, let’s be relenteless on this.
http://townofhempstead.org/content/home/contact.html
As a law student it looks like standard political BS. I am very suprised a politican like Kate Murray is allowing this project to stall with the shape of the economy right now, and I don’t think she would beat Suozzi who has supported the project throughout.
On that note even though we are fighting for dead last we still always wanna beat the Rangers.
Politicians lie to everyone in the hopes that what they say is believed and not questioned. The “what’s in it for me and my constituents” mentality is all over Long Island. All it does is cost the taxpayers more money, often with very little return on investment. I expect the Lighthouse project to cost 2-3 times what it should really cost and get done in 2-3 times the length of what is estimated. 5 years from now, the construction should be almost started. Heh, right.
Unlike the Nassau County officials, County Exec Suozzi and Comptroller Weitzman, who have gone on record ssaying the project is a necessity, Murray has not said one positive thing about it. Why? I think that CB hit the nail on the head. It’s all political oneupsmanship and it’s a damn shame. Too many different levels of local government. On another note, the only opposition I’ve read about is some guy claiming that the various local villages should benefit from the Lighthouse tax revenues on a comensurate basis because they will be inconvenienced by traffic. He actually argues that Old Westbury will be affected and shoud receive tax revenues. How does one respond to an insane claim like that? Hopefully, he doesn’t have too large a following.
Hi Nick, One quick question. The project will cost 2-3 billion. Is Wang using his own money or is funding coming from elsewhere?
The simple fact of the matter is that there are not enough residents of the TOH
who want this project. Just because you see the hockey fans posting here, it does not reflect the sentiments of most of the people who live here. I am a TOH resident
and an Islander fan so I am for the project. But there are many, many more resident (and voters) who could care less.
And all they see is that somebody will have to pay for the project and they fear that it will end up cost the residents money. Just because you happen to be reading a hockey site don’t forget that most people who live here are just worried about their property taxes increasing. And you can argue until your blue in the face that taxes won’t increase
and no on who lives here will beleive you.
The sad history of corruption, crooked politicians and government waste is too ingrained in Nassau and TOH voters.
Think not? Ask any of your non hockey fan neighbors…….SW
Thanks for keeping us informed CB.
One point to all the “the team will move to (fill in the blank)” sayers out there. If I’m not mistaken Gary Bettman has stated the he’s not in favor of an Islanders move, and that it won’t happen, and thats pretty much the sentiment of the board of Governors as well.
The team will be here and it’ll get done. I am curious about the financing though, I havent read or heard anything other than it coming out of Wangs and RexCorps pockets, or via their backing?
Any way get it done!
SIR WILLIAM on Jan 11th, 2009 23:53:39 said:
“…don’t forget that most people who live here are just worried about their property taxes increasing. And you can argue until your blue in the face that taxes won’t increase and no on who lives here will beleive you.
The sad history of corruption, crooked politicians and government waste is too ingrained in Nassau and TOH voters.
Think not? Ask any of your non hockey fan neighbors……”
Quite the opposite, actually. I HAVE talked to non-hockey people,residents of Uniondale, and I was surprised by the enthusiasm with which they support this project.
Things just don’t get done as far as arenas/stsdiums go on a timely basis in the tri state area. Look how long it took for the Mets and Yankees to get their stadiums built. The original plans were announced after the 2001 season. 8 years later, they are opening. The Jets and Giants went round and round by themselves and together and it will be another year before they open the new meadowlands stadium. How many new MSG’s were discussed before a renovation of the current garden was settled on and is supposed to start soon. The Nets have been moving to Brooklyn now for how many years? Maybe Charles has to do what he doesn’t want to do? Put the pressure on. At this point, what does he have to lose?
How long has it been….how many years have gone by since the initial talks started of developing the hub? Its almost ridiculous to see how long this has gone on. Something has to be done to bring this to a head one way or another. We all need to know what lies ahead for the franchise. If the politicians don’t know by now how passionate this fan base is, then they are never going to know. Enough is enough and lets get going with this!
The problem with calling for Kate Murray’s head is that it will be too late for it to have any effect. If we wanted her out we would have needed to have done it during the election of 2007 when she was re-elected. Right now she is in for 3 more years and by that time if nothing is done, the “organization” will already have plans to be long gone. It only makes sense for it to happen. If you figure that the lease is up in 2015 and you do backwards planning you will see that the biggest enemy of us all is TIME. 2015 isn’t that far away.
So Kate Murray is who we have to get this project done.
As Nick has mentioned there are those of us that have been attending the town hall meetings and following what has been going on. Things have actually moved along faster that we had expected until about Thanksgiving. They had been saying that the next round of hearings would open up sometime in the beginning of the year but nothing is on the docket as of yet. Back at the hearings during the summer we left with very high hopes. Now, I am not sure what has happened and why it has gotten bogged down. I keep hearing environmental issues but I, in my personal opinion, believe this phrase is getting old. I think it is a way for the higher ups to have a way out and make some breathing space for themselves.
The one shining example of how come I question this is because of the stadium out in Arizona. It’s concept was brought about long after the Lighthouse idea was started. That project went through planning, development, construction, promotion and already had a Super Bowl while we are here twiddling our thumbs. This isn’t a Republican or Democrat issue this is a Long Island Government issue who are their own worst enemies. The great part about it is that Mr Wang and Mr Rechler are doing most of this with private funds - from what I understood.
PRIVATE FUNDS!!!
There is indeed something not quite right. I don’t know who is to blame or if there is someone to blame. When they all said yes to us at the summer hearing s you would think that they would be very much into making this happen especially since the way the business market is today. Yeah let’s not create jobs for Long Island. The Organization has built a great team to address all issues from parking and transportation to the environment so I really am not sure where the issues lie.
As for groups opposed to the Lighthouse, I don’t think Nick is wrong in saying there is no organized group per se. There are several pro-lighthouse groups that are out there. The opposition will most likely come from the immediate surrounding communities like Uniondale and Hempstead, who may or may not be burdened by the project happening so close to their communities.
Sorry Chris, if I got on a soap box too much but I am very passionate about this issue as are a lot of us. When I pay $1,300 a year in property tax here in NC and that equates to my mothers MONTHLY taxes on Long Island and these people can’t come to an agreement on a project that is so positive in nature, there is really something wrong. I want to come back to Long Island but why am I going to pay another “house payment” in taxes when I can stay here in the Carolinas and save all that money?
As for having an effect? The petition has been going on for about a year I suppose now. There is aver 1,400 names on the online list and we have several hundred more that we have collected at different Islander functions. One of the ways we did have an effect last year was that when we started this thing right before the TOH game that Ms Murray was supposed to drop the puck at she backed out at the last minute because there was a, how shall I say, “civilian organization” that was starting to speak out about their support for the project.
Sorry Chris but I have to put this website out there. All you people saying we should do something, well some of us have. Along with the petition that Nick mentioned here is the website that is married up with the petition: http://www.lilighthouse.com. We even have a hotline <> for ideas and will have a mailing address if need be.
It has not been updated it in a while because the Town has been moving forward. It is there silently waiting for us to engage once more. You will find useful information there and above all, it is ours as fans and Long Islanders. One of the projects we had done for a few months leading up to the summer hearings was sponsoring an “Online Rally” where by every 12th day of the month we had a bunch of people call, email and send letters in to the TOH. The majority of the responses that we got back were that the Town told us that it was in the Organizations hands. Did we make any difference? At the summer meetings it did seem like the Town was excited about the projects. Since then we have taken a step back to let the system work itself. Things had been progressing. Perhaps now is the time to spool up our efforts again?
The things that you can do is to tell everyone about the project. Too many people still think that the project is only about the Islanders. It is about Long Island and our home. Grab a few of the sheets that Katrina and Rikki hand out at the home games and all the IBC events to have your friends and family members sign up. Make sure you say hi to them and tell them you are behind them, I know those girls are the hardest working ladies in hockey. Wear your hat or shirt. I wear my Lighthouse Hat all over and even down here I have people ask me about it or say they have heard about it.
Apologies Chris if I crossed a line with this post.
Accoring to 2007 census estimates there are 766,111 people living within the TOH.
How many of them are Islanders fans?
How many of them care if Wang loses money or not?
How many of them see this project as another way for the taxpayer to get ripped off?
People here are worried about their jobs, their taxes and their kids education. Kate Murray is a smater politician than people give her credit for. She is not going to get behind a multi billion dollar project that that voters who live here see as a waste of money.
766,111 people. The most posts here were 600 and that’s not counting out of towners or double posters. Do the math….SW
Sir William (76): I have no idea how many people are Islander Fans out of 766k worth of people in the TOH. But what number would you need? If the coliseum is filled that means ther is 16,000 people there. That is just over 2% of the population of the TOH. How much do you want?
What I have found is that people gripe to hear themselves grip. If you go through the organizations main website and look under the TEAM tab you will see the developmental consultants that are putting input to this project. It really is quite amazing.
As you have brought up the population of TOH having 766K worth of people, TOH’s own tourist page says that we have the population density of more than 6 states. Think about that for a second. The Town of Hempstead has a bigger popolation that 6 states. When I think of it that way, I think we as citizens deserve the Lighthouse Project.
6 states!!! We should be represented in the US Congress for crying out loud.
So quite frankly, the TOH needs to do this.
Roger, To answer your questions, I don’t need or want anything. I am just pointing out that we as Islander fans tend to think with one vision. Politicians like Ms Murray see a much larger picture.
Just because you want it doesn’t mean that the other 766,110 people who live here do.
Ms Murray certainly has her finger on the pulse of the residents because she has been elected twice. Don’t you think that if there was a huge groundswell of voters behind the Lighthouse she would jump on it?
So, obviously there is not, otherwise it would have gotten done already…SW
Roger, On any given night there are usually about 12,000 people in the Coliseum.
How many come from Suffolk, NYC or other townships in Nassau? At least half I would guess.
That leaves you with 6,000 out of 766,111 or less than 1 %. Poiliticians do nothing for less than 1 % of the voters.
Personally, I would be happy to just see the Coliseum refurbished, but Wang will never do that. He is in this to make untold millions from the land development
and not just to redo the Coliseum.
Kate Murray sees the big picture here and that’s why nothing is getting done….SW
Looks like I better add NHL Center Ice to my cable package in the next few years since it’s the only way I’ll still be able to so my (Las Vegas, Kansas City or wherever) Islanders.
This is great news and its something I’ve been saying for over a year and a half. Despite what this may seem like, it is a positive. You have to look at this as another piece of discouragement for Charles and we could be a little closer to him selling the team, which would be one of the best things to happen to this franchise in a long time.
Go ahead call me nuts but watch what unfolds here for the remainder of 2009.
An unwillingness to “reach across the aisle” by Republicans and Democrats has the project at a standstill.”
This is it in a nutshell, absent the inclusion of the everpresent background players for whom the “Repubs and Dems” serve as stooges. Anyone with minimal understanding of how things work knows if they wanted to get this done NOW they could. The reasons it is not have nothing - NOTHING - to do with the “environmental study” and all the rest. As always, it is the continual struggle over who gets what. The problem in this case is there may not be enough - soon enough - to satifsy everyone. It is a sickening reality that never changes, somewhat akin to how things work in Chicago.
A day late for this topic, but we can write letters to whomever we want, fact is, you just get the same reply back, which is all public knowledge, you can get from town hall, it’s not like they’re uncovering the real reasons, and it’s not just about paper someone didn’t hand in, not after 8 years? c’mon! nobody moves that slow when they stand to make money from something..so?
No doubt it’s a huge project, but 8 years? c’mon! There’s more to this then what we’re being told all you can do is If you live in the area go to the Town meetings let your voice be heard.
Sir William….
You say that you are now FOR the LH project?
Did something happene between here and the Newsday blog?
Cuz I seem to remember a Sir William from the Newsday blog who never had a good thing to say about Charles Wang and was pretty much repulsed by the LH project.
If this is true, welcome to the good side.
If the lighthouse gets built (I believe it will end up as a renovated stadium only. I also don’t understand the fascination with canals), what will the inside be like. I am pretty tall (6′2″) and it is a struggle to sit with my legs so cramped (even worse on nights when there are people on both sides..the benefits of having seats for the worse attendance is this is rare). Does the Wanger have any plans to increase thearea each seat has?
1) The BIG Question is: “What’s the Drop dead date”? The date after which Wang Stops being patient and starts threatening to move the team??
2) To his credit so far he has not done/said anything that could be constred as a threat. Meanwhile in the time its taken to get “appoval to start a new arena” the Mets, yankees, Jets, Giants, devuils have either built or are building new complexes.
I wonder if the Islanders would be called the Islanders if they were to relocate to say Vegas or K.C.? The name just doesn’t fit anywhere else. But then again we have the Los Angeles Lakers, are there alot of Lakes in Southern California? I don’t think Arizona is know for its population of Cardinals, but that name seems to work there and probably one of the most ill fitted nicknames in all of sports is Rangers, not as in Texas, but New York. I don’t see too many “rangers” in NYC, either in 1926 or now.
CB…just for fun, can we have a rename the Islanders contest just in case a relocation scenario becomes a reality. I propose coming up with nicknames for the following potential cities:
Las Vegas
Portland
Kansas City
Hamilton, ON
Winnipeg
I don’t think the Rangers would let the Islanders move. They like the rivalry too much and have a lot of impact on the league being one of the most popular teams. Also, Gary Bettman is on board with keeping the Islanders where they are. I don’t like many of the things he has done, but I think he learned from having teams relocate or expand in non hockey markets.
The league is on our side with this which is huge.
Reading these posts are funny. When I go to the game tomorrow night I’ll be lucky if 40% of the place is filled with Islanders fans. If all the people who complained about this team and who say they didn’t want it to move actually supported it you be the TOH would push this project right through! But no, we have people from Florida, Arizona, and Queens threatening to mount campaigns against politicians of TOH. It was said earlier it is 100% true the percentage of people that are residents of the TOH that care about the Islanders is no where near significant. I believe we have under 10,000 season ticket holders and half probably don’t live in the TOH. So, do you really expect the TOH to act to satisfy those in other states, towns, and counties? The reason there is no organized opposition is because the residents of the TOH are fine with the way things are going and confident that the TOH will take their time and to what’s right for THEIR residents.
CB: Did the Isles ever have dicussions with the Nets to team up with them on The Lighthouse project and bring the Nets back to LI?
What happens when the lease runs out? Can the Isles sign a new lease with better terms? Are are they pretty much doomed if the LH doesn’t get done?
Vegas team name Matt- the craps (fits well with the current situation as well)
I am so sick of this Kate Murray.
May she give birth to a Cactus.
Forget Bettman. IF Al Davis can move the Oakland Raiders against Pete Rozelle’s wishes, there’s nothing Bettman gonna do. You can’t force people to lose money. Can’t do it. It’ll be a sad day, but NOTHING helps a league more than when all the franchises are doing well. The Isles are a liability for the league, the fans, for TV, for Radio….IF the Isles were dog, you’d give them a big & hug kiss, bring them to the vet & have them euthanized. The Isles are THAT sick. It’s cruel & unusual punishment for everyone involved to keep them alive.
If all the people who complained about this team and who say they didn’t want it to move actually supported it you be the TOH would push this project right through!
WRONG.
are the isles a moneymaker once that lease is up in 2014 ?
I’m just forward thinking here wondering if by then Wang just sells the team for 200 mil and someone else makes a go of it without the bad lease
Kate Murray is a hack. Make a decision. If you oppose the project, then say so. It is highly proable that she will let this drag on and on until Wang closes shop and moves on. That way, she can try to escape blame for the Islanders leaving Nassau County by simply stating that she did not kill the project, the Islanders did by not going through all of the proper channels. It’s time to vote this woman out.
truth is if Wang really cared about the islanders and the islanders ONLY he would not have run this team into the ground. He has permission to reneovate the coliseum TODAY but will not do so until the lighthouse project is underway… so we the fans are held captive. I put my money where my mouth is by going to almost all of the games but in all honesty if they move they move. I will find something else to do and will adopt another team. I dont relate to the dynasty teams… they were before my time. The Isles have given me nothing to be proud of in terms of hockey excellence and I will not be held captive by threats to move. If they move F them.
Matt Scordato: The Rangers got their nickname because they were founded by one of the leading promoters of the 1920s: George “Tex” Rickard. Tex’s Rangers is what the teambecame known as.
move the team to SUFFOLK!!!
“From what i am hearing they will let the Coliseum be rebuilt, however Wang wants the Whole Project and that will take years!”
This is 110% true. He was given a go ahead to redo the coliseum years ago. Wang doesn’t want the whole project for the Islanders, he wants for himself. Anyone who doesn’t see that is blind. In response to whoever said I was wrong in saying that if all the people that complained about this team supported it then the TOH would push it right through: If you think that is a false comment then you have no idea how politics or economics work. Take it to the Bank that if 200,000 people protested in favor of the project it would happen, only problem is you would be lucky to gather 25,000 people in support of it.
this may have been answered previously, but I can’t find it, so I’ll ask what may be a silly question. After looking at the plans on their site i can’t find any designated parking.
Are they developing “the endless sea of asphalt” into a puddle…
Coliseum, Baseball, commercial and residential infrastructure…. but nobody thought to add MORE parking…
I am obviously missing something… or are they planning on helicopter transport from Eisenhower Park-ing Lot?
If they are planning on parking all the cars in that huge track of land east of the complex I’d like to see the people that are going to pay for a “luxury apt” and have to take the bus from their car at night… or have a bunch of beer swilling wahoos spilling out in front of your front door 41 times a year… even better… 2015’s Rap-a-polooza!
Yeah… where do I sign up for my $3000/mo 800sq ft apt.
Beatle bailey (98) Exactly!
BUT in defense of Wang, by spending millions on an Arena with a poor lease AND no built in infrastructure, it’s probably not going to work long term. IF the Country was to step in & say we’ll do this, this & that by year whatever, then maybe wang would invest more money into the team. As it stands now, Wang feels he’s lost enough money…that’s why the youth movement & low-ball budget. IMHO, I believe Wang came into this with good faith, but he wants to build a project that a lot of people don’t want. It just seems he’s on too grand a scale for bubble**** Uniondale right now.
All the parking would be underground with everything else built on top of it.
I’ve said this all along, Kate Murray and the Town of Hempstead don’t want anything to do with this project. That’s why it is going to be back-burnered for the foressable future. The politicans in Nassau County and the Town of Hempstead don’t care about the Islanders and could care less if they moved. All they care about are votes to keep themselves in office and will not support any controversial plan that may cost them votes.
The only way this Lighthouse Project gets fast-tracked and approved is when enough Nassau County and Town of Hempstead constitutents voice their support for the project and their displeasure with Kate Murray and the rest of the politicans for stalling the project. Until those things happen, the Lighthouse will continue to remain in limbo.
Perhaps Murray has some developer friend that would prefer to see the Islanders leave all together (get rid of the arena and you can build a lot more office and retail space). So she makes it so Wang gets fed up and moves the team and then one of her developer friends comes in and gets the rights to develope the sight and Murray gets a kick back.
Well after reading CB’s article and every one of the comments I still have way too many questions and not enough answers, even with Nick classic and others’ helpfulness. This is just another reason I want to hear from Mr. Wang soon. The sayings “no news is good news” and “silence is golden” just aren’t doing it for me. Is it possible something has changed and Wang is not “pushing” for the project at all anymore? Is Kate getting silent but powerful pressure to NOT let this get too far? I have no idea, just a growing anger that I have no idea which way to direct it to. Frustrating!
CB, why did you remove my post! it was clean!
For whatever it’s worth… for all you guys who are too young to know, the Islanders were facing a similar type of adversity back in the late 70s, when Roe Boe was the owner. I was only 7 or 8 years old at the time, but used to love going to Racquet and Rink in Farmingdale to watch these guys practice on the old Rink B. You’d see Denis Potvin at the snack bar grabbing a hot dog after practice; guys like Howatt and Bobby Ny joking around in the lobby… it was pretty good stuff. It was obviously before any of the cups, and the team just had a totally type of family feel…
Anyway, there was the looming bankruptcy - and a real sense that the team was going to have to move. It was pretty bad (on road trips, Bill Torrey used to have to pay the hotels in cash, because the team’s credit was no good), and there wasn’t even a history at the time. It would have been just like Atlanta (expansion team from the same year) moving to Calgary; just an experiment that ultimately didn’t work.
Fortunately, Pickett and company saved the franchise back then at what appeared to be the last minute, chipping in their own personal funds to buy the team. When you look at that, and all the other BS this organization has had to endure (from Spano to the Gang o Four), you realize there’s a lot of resiliency to this organization. I refuse to believe that Wang - a dedicated Long Islander with significant means (and I mean more than just money) - won’t figure out a way to get this done in the current era.
Chris — Any chance getting Charles Wang to answer some of these questions fans have? Eventually there is going to be an end game to all of this, Charles Wang has to have a sense where things are headed. There HAS to be a sense of urgency on his part. I’ve always been of the opinion this latest youth movement was step 1 in prepping the team to move to greener pastures. I still feel that way. Can wang say anything to make me feel different? I’m sure fans want to hear his take.
MR. BOTTA, CAN YOU PLEASE COORDINATE A PROTEST/RALLY/RIOT OUTSIDE THE TOWN OF HEMPSTEAD OFFICES? I WOULD BE THERE IN A HEARTBEAT.
WE CAN COMPLAIN ABOUT THE LACK OF MOVEMENT ON THIS VITAL PROJECT…OR WE CAN DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!
thanks Green. I did see that there was subterranean parking, but I thought that was just for some of the residential properties. Is there engineering precedent for that kind of below grade infra-structure on Long Island.
It just seems like an awful lot of square footage that will be necessary, meaning multiple levels, multiple access points, traffic control… all underground.
i’m just curious.
I would be there too Adam. Anyone else?
JPinVA, there is no precedent on LI that I know of. I’ve been to Atlantic Station in Atlanta which uses subteranian parking. But that project is smaller in scale.
I agree totally with your suggestion responce #11 that would defenetely help. Mark
89 joe on Jan 12th, 2009 09:55:17 said -
whoever said I was wrong in saying that if all the people that complained about this team supported it then the TOH would push it right through -If you think that is a false comment then you have no idea how politics or economics work. Take it to the Bank that if 200,000 people protested in favor of the project it would happen, only problem is you would be lucky to gather 25,000 people in support of it.
I assume your argument is that a big protest would convince the ‘officeholders’ to push it through. You remind me of Kay (the Diane Keaton character) in The Godfather, who thought Michael was “naive” because “senators don’t have people killed.” I’m afraid your presumption that Kate Murray and the other suits are deciding this issue is …a little short on hard information. Michael’s reply was “Oh. Who’s being naive Kay?”
why they won’t go ahead with a full-scale renovation is beyond me. the offices, residential buildings, retail space can all come later. put a decent facility on that lot and you will have a building that functions as an attractive space for events year-round.
when i was there on NYE for the game against the panthers, i was embarrassed. the building wasn’t near full and it was hard to walk around that concourse. i don’t have any problems with the seats or the view, it’s the concourse that drives me insane.
Wang won’t do it because the only way he makes money on a renovated coliseum only is with a top quality hockey product resulting in constant sell outs and playoff appearances, you know like an actual professionally run hockey club aspires to. I am starting to believe the islanders are only a means to a real estate development end.
Since my post disappeared and my point was to say that Kate Murray is not to blame it is politics and $$Money here that does. Wang has the go ahead to rebuild the coliseum however Wang wont go ahead with it because he wants the Whole project! And where and who has the funds for the whole project, “The Tax Payers”! Well if it is up to tax payers money i am sure they would except just the rebuild of the coliseum.
CB, i hope you are not turning SOFT do to the organizations strong arming of you!
could you imagine the yankees getting a new yankee stadium built with a record of 62-100?
Well… if the county said, “It could be a long time” or “there will be a tough road ahead”… then Wang should just sit back and tell everybody, “This is what we expected” or “Did anybody think we were going to actually break ground this year”
Rebuilding is rebuilding…
The NY Islanders (12-26-4), 18 games under .500 and a virtual lock for the NHL’s basement.
No accountability, because they said, “we’re rebuilding… it’s gonna be tough for a couple of years”
Well done!
Winning. Winning would solve many MANY of the Islanders challenges. But that’s where an Owner who knows how to hire good people comes in. Charles Wang & Garth Snow are not exactly the known as the go-to people in sports to obtain a positive turnaround. Neither are winners in the sport of hockey. Wang scores in software. Garth Snow? I have no idea what this guy’s good at. He’s got no people skills whatsoever & he can’t make proper scouting decisions on players. See Jeff Tambellini. He’s an absolute enigma, at best. At worst, he’s 1/2 the GM Milbury was.
Tom, you’ve obviously never met our GM.
My point #116 is that you are all flawed in thinking every resident of the TOH wants the project done just because you sit here and read a 120+ posts in favor of the project. Some of you need to realize that there is not exactly overwhelming support among TOH residents, if there were it would certainly push politicians into action. The bottom line is as much you and I love the Islanders and would keep them here at all costs…that just isn’t the case among the majority of people living in the area. Nobody cares, Nobody cares.
I met Garth Snow outside the Barn 2 years ago and I can tell ya this guy is a true Gent. Not a business man, just a hockey guy with an idea to make something out of nothing. All he asks for is time and commitment. What else can we do with that? Unless Wang pulls a fast one and fires Snow (which is very unlikely) I would have to give our GM a chance, and time. Milbury is/was garbage; Snow at least is sticking to his guns.
When is the next rally coming up? I haven’t been to one of those since the Gluckstern/Milstein days.
You’ve obviously never heard garth talk on WFAN about his head coach. You also didn’t catch him bashing the University of Minnesota hockey program. You must of missed his pompous ass quotes about how wonderful he is & how he’s going to be GM for a long, long time, cuz he’s good like that. If anybody wants to know how wonderful garth is, just ask him, he’ll tell ya.
I’m sure garth is cute in person & he may even be friendly when he’s playing patty-cake w/fans at booster club meetings. I’m talking about real world, where real results are expected.
Tom (#126):
ALL GM’s have a pompous appeal. THEY HAVE TO, THEIR GENERAL MANAGERS! Have you ever heard Brian Burke talk? Heck, remember him and Kevin Lowe playing “patty-cake”? Bob Gainey (Canadiens GM) has a huge ego- which is why he has a job…in Montreal! You want results? So far we have Bailey who’s actually fitting into the system quite nicely, Scott Gordon who i’m still optimistic about (giving him another year), Doug Weight who, before his injury, has has been a fantastic role-model, Mark Streit (hey, did you hear he made the All-Stars?).
Get a clue, Tom. a GM’s job is tough and I sure as hell would never do it.
Most successful managers in any business usually are arrogant. They need to be confident in their decisions. What are they supposed to do when questioned? Question themselves? That sounds worse.
to add one more point: its year 1, progress is a game of patience and dedication. Garth Snow is breaking into his new shoes. Come back in 2010.
Oh Wow, sorry CB. So how’s that Lighthouse thing going?
Tom,
As far as a GM is concerned, you can say that Garth bought himself a lot of time with this whole “rebuilding”/”expectations management” BS… but, with limited resources he hasn’t completely crushed the franchise. There can be a case made for him, and his staff, actually making some good decisions.
Trying to revitalize the team with a new, exciting style of play is one. but how long are we going to have to eat this stuff before somebody stands up and says, “this is crap!” (well.. witt did, and by all accounts he’s done)
Building a base through draft day trades rather than taking a big swing (with two strikes) at a HR was probably a very good move. If Filatov turns out to be a 40-50 goal guy in the future Snow is gonna have to eat that for years… but it probably was a good draft day decision.
Smyth… over-aggressive… but there were a lot of us who appreciated the effort.
Nolan… I, for one, would still rather have Nolan (or anybody) teaching defensively responsible hockey… but that’s water under the bridge… and winning is “boring” to some people.
We have to root for these guys to succeed… but we should keep them accountable for progress (and the lack there of).
Back to hockey, when theres actual news on the Lighthouse lets complain about this…on ESPN.com right now I hear Lecavalier rumors are heating up and there arent that many teams that can afford his contract, the islanders atleast have to inquire, right?
I like the direction we are going I just don’t like some of the decisions that are being made along the way. The idea of rebuilding is not a bad one. I was furious draft day initially but came around a week or so later when I realized what he did. I like most wanted Filatov but thought we did ok after thinking it through. I almost feel like sometimes myself and other fans try to convince themselves that we did good or it was a good decision that Snow made when in reality it isn’t. I have to agree with you Tom on Snow. I feel like doing something different and outside the box makes him feel intelligent and these “keep it in the family” comments are almost scary/cultish. I stated this in another post but I don’t know how some people can say ,”don’t give up Weight for a lowley second rounder”, when we passed on Schenn, Hodgson, Filatov, Wilson, for Bailey and 2 second rounders and that move made Snow a genius? The thinking is wacky if you ask me. Sorry for the long post CB.
tom said : You must of missed his pompous ass quotes about how wonderful he is & how he’s going to be GM for a long, long time, cuz he’s good like that…. can you please qoute where he said that. andy you hit it right on
joe on Jan 12th, 2009 14:12:55 said:
My point #116 is that you are all flawed in thinking every resident of the TOH wants the project done just because you sit here and read a 120+ posts in favor of the project. Some of you need to realize that there is not exactly overwhelming support among TOH residents, if there were it would certainly push politicians into action. The bottom line is as much you and I love the Islanders and would keep them here at all costs…that just isn’t the case among the majority of people living in the area. Nobody cares, Nobody cares.
I get your point. My point is that the decision will be made based more on what a small group of people arrange than what the residents want.
also, what the hell is garth doing that is so bad. i think he is doing a good job. also, why would we inquire about vinny? talks would start and end with a first round pick. not to mention okposo or bailey. lets stick to the course. get some top 5 picks in the next 3-4 years and get quality UFA’s
a healthy DP and Vinny for the next 10 years could make some noise…im probably in the minority but say all you had to give up was the 1st pick and bailey, i would do it in a heartbeat, no way thats all it takes tho…this franchise would finally have the star its desperately needed
Wang will either sell the team or move it by next season…thanks Nassau.
hello Quebec Inlanders.
that star it desperatley needs is in the draft. we will compare the stats in 3 years
We always talk like we had only 1 pick in 08 and Garth got us 11 more, so we have to measure Filatov against all 12 of our picks. We had 10 picks already when draft day started. I still don’t think it was a good move to trade out of the top 5 when players who were 2- and 3-caliber prospects were still being selected. We’ll see though. Hopefully it turns out for the best.
CB;
Congrats!!!
You’ve taken over where the Newsday boards left off.
Not only that, you attracted the lame a$$ spammer to boot.
I’d be curious to see how the folks here grade (A-F) our owner, GM, coach and players for the first half of the season.
My eyes hurt from trying to read all of this, but I like West Coast Fan’s point the best (139). This club has been through the fire before, and I want to believe it will rise like the proverbial Phoenix from the rubble of the mausoleum (not in Vegas, either), but it will happen hand in hand with the success of the franchise on the ice. As the Islanders begin to win (2010-2011), suddenly we will see doors open to us that were closed before. Do I know this to be true? No, no more than anyone else knows what’s going to happen.
I’m taking my 8 year old daughter to the game tomorrow. Her wish for Christmas was tickets to an Isles-Rags game. I want there to be a future here on the Island for the Islanders, not just for me but for my kids, so they can do what I did as a kid, skate in front of my house pretending to beat the Oilers for another CUP! As another famous New York team’s fans liked to say, “Ya gotta believe!”
One last thing, not that it means anything coming from some anonymous guy on Long Island, but I cannot say how much I appreciate the lack of hostility towards our fellow commentators. I stopped reading the comments on Logan’s blog because it just became too nasty. I think you know what I mean, SW!
God bless America, the Islanders, and CB!!! Let’s go Isles.
CB,
http://tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=262981&lid=sublink01&lpos=headlines_nhl
Where do the Islanders stand on this?
“Teams can only collect their share of the revenue-sharing money if they attain certain revenue and attendance targets. ”
Do we meet those targets?
Snow B+ (offseason moves)
Gordon B (sicking to his system, not so good with the media)
Bailey B-
KO B+
Park A
Streit A
Comeau B
Witt C
DP inc
JoeyMac B+
Weight B+
Guerin B
Bergy B-
Those are the players who really matter to me
the isles don’t receive any revenue sharing.
119 Paul on Jan 12th, 2009 13:34:56 said:
Since my post disappeared and my point was to say that Kate Murray is not to blame it is politics and $$Money here that does. Wang has the go ahead to rebuild the coliseum however Wang wont go ahead with it because he wants the Whole project! And where and who has the funds for the whole project, “The Tax Payers”! Well if it is up to tax payers money i am sure they would except just the rebuild of the coliseum.
CB, i hope you are not turning SOFT do to the organizations strong arming of you!
Kate Murray is in Politics, so she has everything to do with who gets $$ and such! she isnt some outsider, she is teh definition of insider!
It is an affully big assumption that the taxpayers are going to foot the bill, I do not see people sitting outside the coli protesting this project, NIMBY people….so lets look at what could be happening here
Kate Murray might be running for higher office and saying that she “saved” Hempstead” people from such a project and that she can do similar things for all of Nassau.
She gets kickbacks and will stop anybody that doesnt give her money (like Wang) She is a republican in Nassau that doesnt care about businesses she only cares about votes because if she gets in she can get more curruption money.
She is a dirty politician and must be stopped.
Anybody that wants to start a picket outside her office, i am so there.
guerin13- that’s right no revenue sharing. The Isles are considered a big market club. Calling the Isles “New York” is a misnomer of epic proportions.
If anyone from the Islanders organization is reading this - PLEASE take CB off timeout.
I’m at work. .missing my fix of daily Isles insight!!
To all the people who posted blaming Nassau County for the delay:
For the umpteenth time, the delay is not with the county. The county has approved everything it can approve so far. The problem is with the town.
What part of this don’t you understand? I see post after post along the lines of “the county is incompetent…the county doesn’t care about the Islanders…blah blah blah.”
IT ISN’T THE COUNTY.
getting back to what I said in my earlier post I think it was #16 which was removed In short Charles Wang Bought this team almost 10 years ago and promised us a team we can all be proud of. I quote him in saying build a great team and then worry about the building! Where is our team to be proud of? You gave us a circus act! When asked on a WFAN remote interview from NVMC why he was giving us a rebuilt and not a new NVMC, Charles said on the air If we tear down the building how would we dispose of all that concreate. We have to keep the old building. He was dead serious! Maybe they could put the concreate where they are putting Shea ever think of that. I have been a season ticket holder for 25 years and my love for the NYI has faded like so many other Long Islanders due to horrible teams and horrible management!!! It is a mess. Not to defend the Town here but would you want Charles Wang his son in law Chris Dey and this dog and pony show running the biggest project in the TOH? If Charles runs the lighthouse the way he runs his hockey team the project is doomed before a shovel hits the ground…think about that
505..Let me clarify. I am for refurbishing the Coliseum. I am not too keen on the rest of the project.
I have been to maybe a dozen different NHL venues and can honestly say the the site lines in the Coliseum are the best that I have seen. I would hate to see that change. But the place could sure use an upgrading.
The sad history of New York State and Nassau County goverments is that many many projects start off great but soon run into cost over runs, delays, and outright theft. And in the end who pays for it? That’s right, the taxpayers.
People here have been burned once too often and are rightfully afraid when politicians tell you that “this isn’t going to cost you a dime.”….SW
Aim - you have every right to be upset regardless of whether or not I agree with you. However, I’ve met a lot of the people who work in the Lighthouse group, and they’re all experienced and knowledgeable real-estate people. Rexcorp owns more commercial office space than anybody on Long Island, I would call that a pretty good track record.
SW and others - I think we’re all in favor of refurbishing the Coliseum. However, CB himself in a past posting spoke about why the Coliseum in isolation is either not feasible or the best chance of the taxpayers paying for it. We’ve already seen the cost of the project double in the over 4 years since it was first proposed, so we see first-hand how the byzantine layers of government can affect the process. However, I don’t agree with the idea of simply throwing up our hands and going home when we have a chance to actually do something great. When did our spirit go from “We Can Do It” to “Anywhere But Here”? I’m not willing to accept that.
I get that Wang needs to make money and that he’s lost a lot w/ the Isles. But the Lighthouse Project has always seemed a bit too ambitious to get done all at once, in my amateaur opinion. A really nice refurbished NVMC, with a competitive hockey team playing inside, will draw people to the TOH, which will create more demand for shopping, eating, etc. Fixing the Coliseum, to me, would seem to help the rest of the project, rather than give the TOH an excuse to kill it. But I’m resigned to the fact that it’s all or nothing now, so hopefully things get moving.
That concept picture of the Lighthouse has always reminded me of Delta City from Robocop.
why cant we start with the parking and coliseum and then take it from there
why don’t we just spend a few hundred dollars fixing some little things and start from there. maybe get a mcdonalds in there. yeah… start small. take some time. maybe hire a new mascot and ice girl. maybe some new security guards. fix a toilet. yeah… start small. have wang spend some more of his money so he can lose more. and then years from now build something like a fancy restaurant on the site… like a Chili’s and a few years after that maybe a motel 6. a little more after that. take our time and maybe wang could go broke. that bastard. how dare he lose all his money on the islanders. how dare he.
Nick,
could you go over the “GREAT” part about the Lighthouse again. Some people must have missed it.
2 million more square feet of office space should bring a cure for type 1 diabetes in children, that’s a given…
I know the parade will probably start when those 300 luxury apartments are available.
Maybe it’s all those extra rooms at the Marriot?
I admit having a minor league baseball team in nassau County could be special… but it’s not gonna stop the military-Industrial complex from supporting genocide in some third world country inhabited by brown people.
I know you think I’m an ass… but not EVERYBODY is all Yahoo about cramming another 12 pounds of crap in the 2 pound bag that’s already holding 14 pounds.
maybe this conversation should be about hockey.
We need an owner who is committed to HOCKEY not REAL ESTATE. I’ve seen more commitment to the pipe dream than the real-life hockey team. The fans are sick of it and they will be sick of the new Lighthouse once they have to take out a loan to sit in the “cheap” seats. Wang is using the Islanders and their fans for his agenda. I personally will not fight for this project and I hope to see it fail.
I support a new areana, but thats it. If Charles Wang wants a grand canal or a development or new hotel, he should fight his own battle. How much of a break on tickets will we get for protesting on his behalf?
I don’t think there is a chance of a significant protest, the isles have trouble getting people to show up for real games let alone a rally.
After all this talk, I feel that Charles has to start with building a new NVMC and then it will create demands for housing and shopping. It will also draw in more concerts and big acts to the Island. It seems he will NEVER do this! If he cared about the Isles, he would! It’s where he has to start with the LH –drawing fans and giving the team confidence. He needs to build a hockey sense or the whole Nassau Hub area will fall apart!! Please Charles–it’s the ONLY WAY YOU WILL BE TRUSTED AND MAKE MONEY!!
“But no, we have people from Florida, Arizona, and Queens threatening to mount campaigns against politicians of TOH.”
Joe, if you read my post (#10), I was simply offering an observation. The residents of the Town of Hempstead will have to decide whether they want to do something, as the TOH holds all Islanders fans hostage on this issue. It’s someone else’s campaign to mount. I’m simply drawing a comparison.
You’ll never know just how much you’ve lost until it’s gone … and all that’s left is a big parking lot and a problematic building. But, hey, if that’s what you want …
Wang is the second owner who was interested to a large degree in the real estate. The other was Milstein. The difference is that Milstein, when he couldn’t get his shovel into the ground in a week, stopped funding the club and walked away from it.
I think those who are moaning “why can’t we just rebuild the Coliseum” should just conclude that if two separate people were interested in developing the whole site that you need to accept that the inherent value of a rebuild is not in the arena, but in the whole acreage. Just redoing the Coliseum is not going to happen. It needs to be the whole project.
I love the Islanders, but unfortunately I have to disagree with you all. The Lighthouse is a ridiculously far fetched project, and a logistical nightmare. Who is going to buy the 2,306 “luxury” condominiums Wang plans to build? Who considers the area between Uniondale and East Meadow “luxury”? How can you accomodate parking for 2,306 residences, an 18,000 seat arena, 1,000,000 sq ft of office space, and a 900 room hotel? It is impossible, and will never get done.
The logical solution here is to either
a) Scale back the project to include renovation of the arena, expansion of the hotel, and expansion of the commercial and retail space. Scrap the residential idea.
or
b) Move this project to the area around Belmont Park. Closer to the city, accessible directly by the LIRR, tons of space to build, and no conflicts between racing season and hockey season.
Lets be realistic here folks. The only chance we have of this team staying on Long Island is if this project is completely overhauled.
#160, I know you were drawing a comparison but my point is that there is no evidence that the voters/residents of the TOH are in anyway upset with how this is being handled.
Joe … check your headlines.
I just sent my first note ever to a Town elected official urging that Ms. Murray publicly announce her commitment to the project and to keeping the Islanders here. The website is townofhempstead.org and I’m sure more emails of this nature can only help.
CB,
Heard you on Francesa. Thanks for coming on and clearing things up. One question. Mike, prior to you coming on said that the Lighthouse project would not take off because of funding. When you came on you said that it was to be privately funded. So if it is not about money why is Kate and the Politicians in Hempstead so aginst it? The area around the coliseum is not all that nice. This will only make the are look better, bring in business, and boost her business.