NO EXCUSING THE BIG ONES THAT GOT AWAY
Don’t blame old deals for current state of the NYI
As the Islanders started to sink after 10-12-2, readers made some definitive proclamations:
- The trading of Roberto Luongo (and subsequent draft day shenanigans) set back the Islanders organization so far, they still have not recovered almost 9 years later.
- To this day, the Islanders are still feeling the aftershock of previous ownership dumping salary and trading Ziggy Palffy to Los Angeles a decade ago.
- It actually goes further back. The organization has never been the same since the day in 1995 when Kirk Muller was acquired for Pierre Turgeon, and then told the world he had no interest in being part of the team.
To all of the above, your feelings are so understandable, there’s no reason to go over all the gory details again.
But to all of the above, I also respectfully call BS.
The series of very unfortunate events cited above only serve to give the Islanders the easy way out. No sports franchise - no business - should ever be provided such excuses.
Let’s say the Islanders made the worst deal in the history of professional sports just a year ago. There is still no reason for that to set them back more than a year, let alone a decade, let alone a generation.
On Dec. 1, 2005 the Boston Bruins traded Joe Thornton to San Jose for second-line center Marco Sturm, fourth-line center Wayne Primeau and No. 5 defenseman Brad Stuart. (They didn’t even get a prospect or high draft pick back). Thornton, at the time a three-time NHL all-star, finished the season with 92 points in 58 games with the Sharks and won the Hart Trophy. On the day of the trade, Thornton was 26 years old.
Two seasons later, the Bruins were in the playoffs. Today, they are 33-8-5, best in the Eastern Conference, tied with San Jose for best in the league. Zdeno Chara and Marc Savard were signed as free agents. Young players like Krejci, Kessel, Wheeler and Lucic were added and developed. All of those moves - some made by ex-GM Mike O’Connell, fired in large part for the Thornton trade - still could have happened with their franchise center around. I don’t buy the theory that the Thornton deal paved the way, just that the Bruins rebounded magnificently.
No one is saying the Muller, Palffy, Luongo moves (and any others you want to add to the list) were not earth-shakers, reverse-difference-makers. But this idea that any transaction - however disastrously it may be viewed - can devastate a sports franchise for years, is tough to buy into.
I always felt there were some parallels between the Islanders trade of Luongo and the Mets dealing of Scott Kazmir for Victor Zambrano four years ago. (That’s a column about desperation for another day, but think about it). I’m not even a Mets fan, but I still remember Eddie Coleman on WFAN breaking the news, and me banging my head against the steering wheel. (I can hear you, dear readers/fans: Now you know how we feel). Two years later, the Mets were a game from the World Series.
The Islanders are hurting right now. They are in the first year of a pre-meditated rebuild that some fans - waiting 16 years for a measly playoff series victory - are having difficulty digesting. But enough about major fumbles made (in some cases) five ownership groups, three GMs and more than a decade ago. Whether you’re on board with this rebuild or not, hold the Islanders accountable for every move they make in the present and future.
Comments.
121 Responses to “NO EXCUSING THE BIG ONES THAT GOT AWAY
Don’t blame old deals for current state of the NYI”
Please Wait
Yikes those are some bad memories, but I think your point is correct CB. Let’s see what they do from this point forward.
All good points Chris. It all comes down to good drafting and a few smart trades. The Bruins got Krejci and Lucic in the second round, drafted Kessel in the first, picked up Wheeeler and made two smart fee-agent signings in Savard and Chara. Had Boyes to trade for Wideman and got lucky that Thomas blossomed in net late. The Islanders haven’t struck gold with any of their recent draft picks and passed on people like Parise, Richards and Getzlaf for Nilsson.
nice turgeon picture..
Justin: I think that your examples would fall under the past catrgory more than they can be considered “recent”… its going on six years ago now, pre-lockout, a different GM, different scouting staff, its not exactly recent.
But regardless of that, we agree that it is about good drafting and smart trades. Ill also add in one other thing- something that the Isles havent had but are really REALLY due to see a bit of- and that is LUCK.
Excellent job, Chris!
Thanks CB… you nailed it
I think the problem is that most people dont realize the price the Islanders paid for being merely mediocre the past 5 years. It prevents the ability to score top young talent and yet you can’t sign free agents since they know you aren’t a serious contender.
They should have bailed on overachieving free agents years ago and gone with the youth movement then. A rebuilding period like this is always inevitable for mid-market teams. The Islander’s just happened to keep putting off this inevitably thereby making the process longer and much more difficult to take.
If Garth down the right thing at the deadline i.e.-trade players such as witt and weight, the process will be expedited and the fans patience rewarded.
A draft can’t be properly analyzed for a few years so we can safely say the Isles failed the 2003 draft. I guess that was the point I was making. The last few years (Okposo and Bailey) look good, but we don’t know for sure yet. Not having a 1st-round pick in 2007 certainly hurt and Bergenheim and Nokelainen weren’t exactly home runs.
CB, all good points, I think we need to make a good trade or have a good prospect to solidify those memories in the past, and not reasons for the current state of things. It’d be easy to say “Yeah those were the bad years” but we don’t have any line drawn in the sand separating the good from the bad, once we feel we have a contender we’ll know the line has been drawn.
eye on the island:
What’s Detroit’s excuse for being a top tier team every year then? They always draft near the bottom of the order and they still have a great team… NO?
Good drafting, good sense, good systems, top notch development, not trying to outsmart yourself on draft day and a little lady luck is the key to consistently winning…
Having one of the top two picks guarantees NOTHING!!!
DOC
what’s done is done. there’s no sense in becoming obsessed with past mistakes. just move on and hope that the club has finally learned from it’s mistakes.
i agree , time to move on , put the milbury bashing to rest and try and find some positives to look foward to during this very frustrating season… Ill be at the game tommorrow night and im trying to think of an intelligent sign to make regarding the lighthouse/kate murrey/ Kansas City…. any suggestions?
trading Luongo/Jokinen for Kvasha/Parrish is more like dealing Nolan Ryan for Jim Fregosi…it just might be the worst trade in NHL history (one HOF and one perennial All-Star for one complete bust and one semi-bust)…coupled with who Milbury passed on in the draft to do this it’s even worse…as for the contention that it didn’t affect the franchise, I say BS…just because the Bruins recovered faster doesn’t make this trade disastrous for this franchise…each set of deals must be judged on their own…and two bona fide all-stars, especially Luongo, would have kept Isles relevant…I agree that the Turgeon and Palffy deals are ancient history
permit me one off-topic…anybody else think we should go back to the “Equalizer” video (updated towards end) on scoreboard just before puck drop? I find the present video lame
THANK YOU CB!!!!
I agree!!
GET OVER IT!!!!
As far as this season goes, as bad as the record is, I am extremely impressed with these kids. With all the loss of the vets they’ve played the Rags, Bruins and Caps very tight.
There is something very special brewing here with some of these guys. All these kids are resilient as hell and no matter what deserve a big slap on the back.
After forty plus games this season they have matured by leaps and bounds and contonue to improve. They may not make the playoffs anytime soon but that will come.
This time next year I guarentee this team will evolve into a force to be reckoned with. The skill set is there with a few of the kids it’s just a matter of solidifying some chemestry on the ice.
Little things like knowing where your linemates are at all times. Just getting used to them doing what they do.
By January this time next year I think we’ll really see what we have. Like I said, won’t be a playoff team at that point but something that’s gonna start winning games with regularity.
The rest of the development should go smoothly from then on in. Just stick with the plan and don’t waver from it!!!
I’ll tell you exactly why this organization has failed:
2002
# 22 Bergy
# 87 Neilsen
2003
#15 Neilson (Pass on Parise)
#48 Chernyeh
#53 Tunik
#58 Colliton
2004
#16 Noke
#47 Comeau
#82 Ogorodnikov
2005
#18 O’Mara
#46 Kohn
#76 Guthrie
2006
#7 Okposo
#60 Joensuu
#70 Figren
#100 Rakhshani
2007
#62 Katic
#76 Gregoire
With the exception of Okposo not a top six forward in the whole bunch. Neilsen
may become one. Bergy, Comeau,and Colliton are all grinders. Most never even sniffed the NHL. Worst drafting in the NHL…..SW
Rhett Rakhshani Is projected as top six forward. Not sure where they screwed up there given that he’s a 100th overall pick.
Figren is also projected as a top six guy.
Berenheim and Neilsen were also screw ups?
I think you’re a little addicted to this game. Not trying to be a jerk but Bergenheim is a quality pick at 22 in that draft.
Chris:
The Turgeon/Muller trade was awful (it sank Don Maloney) and was the Isles’ version of the Rocky Colavito trade (check out Cleveland Indians history to see the connection as a franchise turning point). Dealing Ziggy was a shame, but not fatal.
The Luongo deal, on the other hand, has had/will have repercussions for years.
Luongo was regarded as the best non-NHL goaltender in the world His play with the Islanders did nothing to tarnish that image.
So here’s a team with the best young (under-21) goaltender in the world — and it trades the kid away in order to make room for … another goaltender. With desperate needs up front, Milbury falls in love with a brash young goaltender and throws his best asset over the side.
Let’s picture the Isles with Luongo.
With Roberto in goal, the Isles take Heatley or Gaborik (I’m told Gaborik was the favorite), giving them a top-tier scorer for the first time in a few years. The franchise has an offensive impact player to go along with a sensational young goaltender. Two impact players are an excellent start for a rebuilding franchise.
Instead, Luongo is traded for a pair of forwards who are non-impact players. The Isles draft a goaltender who was nowhere near NHL-ready (to his credit, Charles Wang spent the money to bring in Chris Osgood, who helped ameliorate some of the problem). Rick has had some excellent moments, but he has yet to become an impact player (he may become one, but the window is closing).
Milbury’s last few drafts were horrible — but it was his unwillingness to be patient with players like Luongo that really submerged the franchise. Sorry — that trade was a killer.
Chicken, Projected means squat. They have done zero so far.
Bergy is a first round BUST.
163 games 22 goals minus 31
That’s some quality pick !!
Neilsen has shown some signs. However, he is 24 years old now. About time.
54 games 5 goals
If you think these are top six forward stats, there is no point arguing with you…SW
Blah blah blah blah blah blah… the main reason why I don’t read hockey blogs all that often are the long-winded hockey freaks who live in the past and bemoan the present because of perceived mistakes by management. Who cares about the past??? Yeah, so they drafted poorly in the last 10 years… so what? It doesn’t change anything for today. Maybe if certain players had been healthy… maybe if certain players didn’t get traded or didn’t get hurt… etc. etc. Managing the “what ifs” is always a fun thing to do as a “stadium-chair quarterback,” but when you don’t have any control over it, it’s useless to bitch and moan about it.
Watch the games and support the team, dammit!! Or… go find a Cup winner from the last 10 years to support. Just like CB, I’m tired of hearing the BS.
The 2000 draft did set this franchise back a generation though.
Without making that stupid trade & drafting DP, this team would have the best goalie in the sport and one of the better goal scorers in Gaborik or Heatley.
That trade set everything in motion for where the isles are now & where they’ll probably continue to be considering Ricks insane contract & brittle body that can’t stay on the ice.
I hear ya CB ~ I think most fans are just hyper sensitive due to the gross neglect and consistent series of miscues by previous management under previous ownership and the current owner.
I agree with you 100% … you used the B’s as an example … I’ll add the Flyers into that mix. I think Snow has to stick to his guns … if he starts zigging when he should zag that is when he’ll really set the franchise back. I think addition by subtraction right now is the right building model… Chicago & Pittsburgh are recent examples of teams seeing success after several poor years … add now Caps to that list and we should start seeing something from Phoenix … things go in cycles … the Isles’ inconsistency is what has detoured them from building a highly competitive team.
Chara, Luongo, Bertuzzi & Palfy … long time history … have nothing to do with today’s failures … I know it’s hard right now to feel good looking at the standings … but I feel positive about the future … and Rick getting the rest of the year off “hopefully” will be the right Rx for him.
Agreed Cb. As much as even thinking or talking about those deals kills me, we have to get over it and move one.
Whats going on now really has nothing to do with what happened 10 to 15 years ago. I like what Garth is doing now. It will take a bit of time, but eventually it will happen.
I think Garth is becoming a better GM and the man has a plan.
Garth is NOT mike milbury.
rb #13 You’re right, the pregame video is lame, really lame. The whole experience on a game day is lame. Ice girls and ice breaker cheerleaders? Please, I feel like I’m at the circus not a hockey game.
the isles arent the only team kicking themselves for not picking Parise .The kid was ranked 9th and slid to 17th .The isles probably didnt spend time scouting him assuming he would go earlier in the draft and figured if everyones passing on him maybe we should too.Also , I recall the buzz at islandermania that year was Robert Nilsson being the player alot of the fans wanted the isles to target as he was ranked at or around our draft slot.
Berard for F Potvin felt like a kick in the nuts though .We got some good years out of Scatchard though (via trading Felix to nucks)
I agree that its time to move on cb -but one cant help to think of a roster full of some of the guys that were traded from time to time.
Players dont trade themselves…..ISLES management needs to be held accountable for making good decisions….and they clearly have not over the past 15 years. As much as Wang has been a savior for this franchise, he needs to step up the heat and accountability of his GM, scouting staff, and coaches. You dont get to be a billionaire without being a shrewd businessman and decision maker. Its time that Wang starts acting like an owner who demands nothing but the best effort and results period.
Everything else is like pissing in the wind.
Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it. Its not a matter of just getting over it. This team is not in the position to attract a star replacement to make up for a bad trade like Marc Savard coming to Boston. I can stomach losing this season and giving ouselves the best shot we can at Tavares. After that, I expect “rapid ascention”. No more blindly swinging for the fences on hunches.
Does anyone actually believe that other teams look at the Isles youth (ie.Okposo, Bailey and his 1 goal, Nilesen, Bergenheim….is their anyone else worth mentioning) and comes away impressed? Just look at the division…. look at the Pens,look at the Flyers. Nobody looks at the Isles and walks away impressed by the youth. Every team in the Division has players 25 and under that have contributed more than the Islanders youth. It’s the truth.
Detroit has exactly two impact players drafted in the first three rounds since 02, Jiri Hudler and Johan Franzen. Are you suggesting we hire their scouts and try to rebuild from the fourth round down? Most draft picks never see the NHL. Datsyuk and Zetterberg were taken in the fifth and sixth rounds, if I remember right. No one is that smart. Thats lucky. Its guys like Hossa and Hasek wanting to go there that makes Detroit a perrenial powerhouse. With stable ownership, a new facility and a re-energized fan base, we can get there too, but we have to undo all the crap the Milsteins, Spanos and Milburys of the world have done first.
Hey Botta…. is Zizzy your pet name for Ziggy Palffy? What the heck is that all about?
Awesome headline on the back page of Newsday. My problem with the past is that CW signed off on everything, and was all for the dark day in the 2000 draft cause he was thinking outside the box. Yes we need to move foreward but I would feel so much better if we had actual hockey people in charge of the rebuild. This really is not much of a youth movement more then it is going cheap and having a payroll that reaches the floor level of the salary cap. I never hear CW say anymore that we will spend whatever it takes to put a winning product on the ice. This team would have trouble winning in the AHL. Dont forget 2 short years ago OUR TEAM HAD 92 points. how do you go from 92 points to this??? very bad management my friends and a GM that was clueless his 1st full summer at the helm. Ted went from saviour to mud in 1 short year and was tossed out for what reason?? He saw the writing on the wall and spoke up about it. Garth Snow was handed the keys to a decent hockey team and it 2 very short years the house of cards came tumbeling down
Terry #29 - Never should have let Jimmy Devellano go. It really started there
milbury’s problem was not drafting talent it was developing it.as bad a gm as he was he was worse as a coach.he didn’t show patience as either.and the berard trade was another terrible one,how do you trade a calder winning d-man(position of strength)for a goalie sitting at home cause they signed cujo(position of weakness).forget winning a trade,did milbury ever break even?
CB,
You are right on in mentioning how the Bruins recovered from the Thornton trade as a team that was not devatated by a horrible trade. We can only hope that Garth makes the right moves and we follow in Boston’s footsteps. However, the Mets and Zambrano/Kazmir is not a fair analogy to Luongo/Kvasha, et al., because in baseball, at least today, a big market team can “outspend” its mistakes. So, yes, the Mets, with one of the highest payrolls in MLB, got within a game of the WS a year or two later. With that payroll, how could they not at least come close? With a salary cap, all teams theoretically are on an even playing field and I’d like our GM and Socuting Dept. to rise to the top of the class.
Blame Uwe Krupp.
He netted that OT goal while we stayed in the Coliseum after the Isles game ended, and his goal pushed us into the playoffs. Scott Scissons was a fantastic pick at #6…
CB, I love your site and read it everyday. I agree with almost everything you say but I have to disagree with you here. The situation with the Mets is way different. After trading away one of their best prospects in Kazmir, they were able to go out and get some of the biggest free agents in Pedro Martinez and Carlos Beltran. As well as swing a deal to get Carlos Delgado a year later. Also, they have 2 of the best young players in the game with Wright and Reyes. The Isles have made some horrendous trades and haven’t been able to attract top free agents. They also do not have any high end young talent. Bailey and Okposo are nice, but not enough. With the way the Isles have been in position to draft in the past 10 years, they should be in much better shape.
Enough with Louongo already…he is so great he is NOW ON HIS FOURTH TEAM…did all of these other teams screw up as well? HOF goalie???? Are you kidding? Can we wait to see how his career ends first?? Is that too much to ask? Jokinen, a perennial all-star? Did I miss something here too?
milbury and the previous onwers killed a once great franchise, and i hope snow and mr.wang dont make the same mistakes, hope to see ya’ll in saskatoon, GO BLUE AND ORANGE
Agreed, move on. However, it has been a loooooong time between quality draft picks. Thats why the “build through the draft” mantra is only half true. The Isles MUST make smart trades as well. Even if we have 14 draft picks after some deadline moves, what would that do? draft 14 and hope 5 pan out? Get the scouts out and get players already in the NHL with the proverbial “potential”. Im 50 now, cant wait for the 34 draft picks in the next 3 years to mature.
CB
Can you find out about any other goalies that have gone thru similar knee surgeries have gone on to good or bad recoveries?
Are the Islanders still saying that DiPietro is medically cleared to play? How many games until Danni gets injured? Does anyone know where I can get a Kansas City Scout jersey with “Tavares 19″ on the back?
How much money am I paying to support the Katzenjammer kids operation of this franchise? Do I need this much character building?
Wow that was awesome CB. Fans need to hear that. Its not just these 3 deals but all the deals that are made that can make or break a team. Can’t look behind you on to the present and future. I have always been a sink or swim fan. I am sticking with this team.
All you need to do is look at the Arizona Cardinals berth to this year’s Superbowl to see what a pathetic team can do to rebuild in just a few years.
Its funny how Chris put up a whole story about how people should move on, but in the response section to that same story there are people pointing out all the problems with the very same trades he mentioned as if nobody has heard it before. Yeah, OK, we know lol…
I’m in all of this woulda shoulda talk, there hasn’t been a mention of #79 Alexei Yashin. I am probably one of the few people who liked Yashin on the NYI. He was one of the most skilled players to wear the blue and orange in sometime and when he was shown the door, you could immediately tell that the Isles sorely missed his offensive contributions. He made players around him better (i.e. Jason Blake, who 90% of the time is an average player). I was kinda hoping they would resign him, but only for a reasonable price, he would have immediately become the Isles best offensive player. Yeah I know, come playoff time he disappeared and that was his big failing, not a pressure type guy. The problem w/ Yashin wasn’t the person, but the contract, which was offered up by Charles and MM. If your employer was going to overpay you to do your job you’d probably take the money right? And deal with the consequences later.
Chris, I have to disagree! By the logic and examples you present (the Bruins and the Mets), then we should hold Islanders management doubly accountable: for making bad trades AND for not being able to recover from their own bad decisions.
Yes, that’s correct, James. Especially the second part, since that involves current management…CB
The simple fact is this: the Isles DID make not just one, but a series of deplorable deals and mind-boggling draft choices which DID set this franchise back years. I won’t go as far back as Turgeon or even Palffy, but the draft day shenanigans of 2000 and 2001 cost this team at the very least a perennial all star goalie, 2-3 all star forwards, and an all star defenseman (Luongo, Jokinen, Spezza, Heatley/Gaborik, and Chara).
Follow that up with mediocre drafting year after year since then, and that is why we are here. And there is no one to blame but the organization.
I’m on board with the re-build… but there’s a reason we’re here. And it starts at the front office.
What if we hadn’t traded away Luongo and then drafted either Heatly or Gaborik? Who’s to say they all would have played well with the Islanders? Change of scenery plays a lot into it. Look at Bertuzzi when he left. He blossomed. I guess this all goes back to the light house project and making the Island a more attractive place to play.
I think in many ways it’s wise to look back on what happened after the 1992-93 season. Except for the very short-lived enthusiasm around Shawn Bates penalty shot in Game 6 of the ‘02 playoffs, it’s been David Volek and a whole lot of nothing to get excited about.
I remember the last youth movement in 95-96. Eric Fichaud was the keystone, along with Palffy, McCabe and Berard. Two or three seasons later they were all gone, either busted out (Fitch) or traded to save money as the franchise really tumbled into disrepair (the Spano follies, et al).
I’m not sure why this current “youth movement” feels any different, or if it should feel different. “Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it.” I would be crushed if DP turned out to be the second coming of Fichaud…DP has shown small glimpses of perennial All-Star potential. Even worse would be seeing Okposo walk in two-three seasons because the Islanders can’t pay him or he’s tired of playing for this franchise.
I’m also not convinced that Garth Snow isn’t just reflective of the poor old management style. Granted, he has little to work with, but I haven’t seen any indication he’s doing things any differently.
I agree, fans have been waiting so long for some sort of rise, and over the last few years it’s been on thing after another. Tanked again..
When DP came to the team, things did start to look a bit up, that’s why fans loved him. Now some reports are stating it just may be career over for him, he’ll get looked at again in about 8 weeks..so? now what?
You have to hope that Garth an Gordon will make the best choices for the team
I understand about the rebuild and boy it’s frustrating to watch the team go through all the things we are faced with, and sad to say it’s goin to be at least 2 0r 3 years before we see any big rise.
I don’t like living in the past, I’m the first to say that while the Luongo deal wasn’t the greatest, where’s his cup to prove Milbury was so wrong? Gaborik’s injured more than Ricky, etc. etc. One thing I can say is that things don’t change much on the Island.
http://islesgameday.blogspot.com/2008/08/throwback-1997.html
(CB, I don’t know if you like linking stuff, but this link is great and should give a lot of fans a chuckle or agita?sp?)
I’m with You, Chris. It’s all BS now, but…I still hate Don Maloney & Kirk Muller
I feel your point, CB, but I have to call BS on your calling BS. It’s one thing to say that those moves shouldn’t be an excuse - I quite agree - but it’s quite another to downplay their impact. This team is horrible because it’s been horribly run since 1993. That’s not an excuse, just a reality. Fans cite those past examples because there’s been precious little to put against them in the positive column. Even the brief revival in ‘02 was almost immediately undone.
What I’m saying is, it’s not so much that the franchise is “cursed” or “snakebit” or any such stupidity - it’s that these mistakes are becoming the hallmark of a team that was once the model for all professional sports franchises on how to build from scratch. And like Kazmir/Zambrano, these are mistakes that are plainly mistakes the moment they’re made. (Maybe the Mets thought they were getting Carlos Zambrano and didn’t read the fine print?) I’m sure most fans reacted the way I did when I heard about Muller for Turgeon - “We got completely SCREWED.” Same thing about the Luongo deal… this kid got a great write-up in Sports Illustrated and there was a lot of buzz about him. Why dump him in a deal in which even Milbury claimed was possibly insane, but what the heck! I’ve got a point to this!
The past fifteen years aren’t an excuse… it’s just the truth that this team was emptied of talent, became a must-stay-away destination for nearly every free agent of note, and took on the public perception of a laughingstock. Sure, it can turn around in two seasons (like the Bruins) - this team could threaten for the playoffs next year, in fact, if all breaks well. If it does and we fans see that improvement, then we will be able to say that we’re on the right track. Not a moment before. I’m hopeful, I like a lot of our young players, but this club has forfeited the benefit of our doubt.
The Mets have made some bad moves as well however, they unlike most MLB teams can spend whatever it is they want and fix it quite fast.
Arizona Cardinals just got lucky from being in an awful division.
The Isles apparently can’t sign anyone and it really isn’t the way to build long term success.
CB,
With DP shelved… and nothing clear about his future… can we get an update on where Stefane Ridderwall and how he is progressing in the Swedish Elite League. If for whatever reason DP is sidelined beyond this season, is Ridderwall someone the Isles could lean on, and what do scouts and those within the Isles organization think of Ridderwall and his ETA.
Thanks,
CB is absolutely right. Stop wallowing in the past, we all know how bad it was. Stop blaming Snow and Wang for things that happened before either was in his current position. It’s beyond enough now.
CB, I can’t allow you to gloss over the gravity of those moves and moves like them. Forget the Turgeon thing, that’s ancient history. But the moves of the Milbury Mishagosh are still being felt in the organization. Passing over Parise (and others) for Nilsson is a huge one that comes to mind. Every time I look at a Devils score sheet, I see the name Parise. And it makes me want to find Milbury and strangle him with my shoelaces, which would be fitting, I think. Don’t even get me started on the deal that sent Luongo and Jokinen to Florida for Kvasha and Parrish. Ugh.
Interestingly enough I dont harbor on these moves as the failure of the organization or reason to put a hex on milbury. Alot of these moves, while not good, came because of salary reasons when the islanders had ownership unwilling to pay premiums. I long for the days when a premium player cost you 2-3 million a season instead of 7 and fringe players with one good year costing 4 million. Ziggy was traded because the islanders would not be able to afford his free agent demands. turgeon was traded because he was shell of his former self after the hunter hit, while he still had 94 points that year everyone complained how he avoided contact and played a soft game. While hindsight is always 20/20, you need to remember the circumstances of the deal or move. After year one of the rebirth in 2001 when the isles got osgood yashin and peca, no one can deny the feel good feeling that all the right moves were made and the islanders were going somwhere, yes in the long run it did not pan out for chemistry coaching reasons and yashin while good to start signed an awful contract and the rest is history but once the isles start 6-1-1 that season and almost beat the maple leafs everything was good in islander land. So while revisionist history is nice everyone must take a good look back at initial reactions and why deals were made.
Well i love your Optimistic view of it all, and maybe their is some truth to what you say.
However it is Far From “BS”! what your failing to say is that we still have not recoverd even if you start with Turgeon or since 1995!lets look at where the Team is Today and were we have been “No 2 year recovery their and making the 1st round of the playoffs is no FEAT!
Beside’s tell us “WHAT” and “WHO” the problem is then or are we still crossing our fingers for Hope!
Or Maybe we are waiting for the LightHouse to be completed! LoL!
I agree with Sir William! Their has been so much damage done to this Team that i cant see a turn around for at least 5-6 years, and WANGS not spending any money you can bet on that!
Lessons learned:
1) No more contracts greater than five years in length
2) No more draft day deals if you hold a top five pick
3) No more drafting Robert Nilsson when Zach Parise, Ryan Kesler, Ryan Getzlaf, Mike Richards, and Corey Perry are still available.
Nightfly (#52) says:
“this club has forfeited the benefit of our doubt.”
Well said. I realize it’s not the same regime that made all the catastrophic moves, but there’s got to be more (as Herrmann aluded to in his article the other day). Having two of the best FA signings this off season is a start and so is the development of KO before our eyes. But we need to see more, as well as a change of luck or karma (talk to me after the draft lottery).
I downplayed their impact? I glossed over them?
I believe I wrote that I wouldn’t want to go “over the gory details” and I called the decisions “disasters” and “reverse-difference-makers.” LOL…CB
Can we also stop this BS crying about a draft ex post facto? Scouting has always been an inexact science - I remember TSN and ESPN, in their instant analysis of the 03 draft, slammed Anaheim for taking Getzlaf and claimed he’d be no more than a decent 3rd liner in the NHL. Phaneuf was rated the 3rd best defenseman IN THAT DRAFT, and everybody thought Jeff Tambellini was better than the scrub the Kings took 15 picks earlier (Dustin Brown). It’s not to say it wasn’t a mistake, but you can’t cry about mistakes using information that wasn’t known when the draft occurred.
I don’t understand how you guys that love to beat your heads against the wall and piss and moan about everything think you’re using your energy in a positive way. We have a completely revamped scouting staff and hopefully the drafts will be better from here on out.
Boston traded 1 player, and got servicable players back. The Islander have been makeing bad moves for over a decade. The 20o0 draft set this franchise back a long, long time, and the player they drafted 1st overall is not a top player.
I love your site CB and usually agree with you, but the Luongo/DiPietro fiasco destroyed this franchise long term. Had Milbury not made those stupid moves, the Isles would have been able to build a team around Luongo, Jokinen and Heatley instead of just DP. Those decisions killed the franchise. They still have not recovered.
I think the same can be said about the Bertuzzi/McCabe for Linden trade. Another awful trade. Had he not made that one, McCabe and Bertuzzi could have also been part of a core to build around. Instead, they had nothing to build from.
I think the big difference between the Islanders and the Thorton analogy is that the Islanders were a small market, broke team when they made all of those horrific trades and the Bruins were a larger market team when they traded Big Joe, a team readily capable of paying for and attracting premier UFA’s, something the isles are not capable of now and weren’t when the deals were made. So, I think those trades and drafts had a much harsher effect on the Isles than they would on a larger market team with financial resources to correct mistakes.
The Yashin deal hurt this franchise probably more than any other deal. Lost Chara, Spezza and got back a cancer in Yashin.
and not only did Snow fumble the entire 2007 off season, he trades Zhitnik for Freddy Meyer. Philly turns Zhitnik into Braydon Coburn. Where was Garth for this deal where was an astute GM trying to get the Max. in a trade. Follies all Follies. Like CW saying we cant have a new coliseum cause there is no where no put all of the old concreate. Has Snow made any good moves?? When we had the mass exoudous of 2007 he replaces all that lost talent with Comrie Guerin and SIM yes Jon Sim we lose Smyth Yashin Blake Kozlov Aashom Zedink and replace with the above 3 players. On D we lost a good point guy in Poti and get Sutton This is not the past this is not MM this is our GM taking a 92 point team and turning it into this mess we have now
I mostly agree with CB’s points. Remember, Luongo was traded from Florida a couple of months before he was going to be an UFA. The Isles trading him still kills me because I followed him from when he was in juniors and I loved him as a player, but I can separate that from the fact that he probably would be gone from the Isles by now via free agency anyway (maybe Wang would have gotten a 15 year deal too to stay, but who knows). I think the bottom line is that Isles fans have not really had any true impact players (or players who later turned into impact players) since Luongo, Bertuzzi, Palffy, and have had little success on the ice, so many fans have nothing to distract them from the past and so are are still fixated on it. It is understandable.
My feeling is that once they finally develop an all pro type player or two (fingers crossed - Tavares) and start winning some games, people will start to let go of this awful past and look forward. Closely related to this is the Lighthouse project too. It’s just part of the overall malaise of the franchise that the NVMC is still an anchor in terms of press coverage, attracting free agents, etc. If the Lighthouse project gets green lighted before June and then they get one of the 1st two picks in the draft, in my view people will start to get excited by looking forward again rather than looking back. I truly hope this happens!
Hey Nick, the purpose to these blogs are to voice opinion and feelings not just agree and Yes to death CB! The past has everything to do with were we are NOW!
Beside’s the only thing to hold on to and Hope for is that Snow and corp gets the 1st round pick or we can be Cheerleaders for the LightHouse Project!LoL!
LOL, well THAT was preaching to the choir! Good try though CB.
Newsbreak Paul, we can probably do BOTH - hope for the #1 pick AND be cheerleaders for the Lighthouse.
Imagine that.
Quag #68 I hate that people blame the building. If you put the Detroit Red Wings in NVMC Free agents would flock here and care less about the building. Same can be said about 10 other franchises. Free Agents Dont want to come here because the NYI are a joke in the hockey world. Quag would you want to play here?? Not me and yeah that is sad. How many FA have we signed and kept?? They sign here and we dump em for picks shortly after. people may hate me for saying this but move the Rags to NVMC and I bet they sell out every night and still attract MAJOR free agents. It’s not the building it is INEPT management. If we get a new building and still conduct the circus act FA’s still will not come here. Then what will be the excuse
Re post #68:
The free agency argument doesn’t validate any of the moves. Nobody can say that any one of those guys would definitely have left or stayed. Remember, Luongo, Heatley, Jokinen, Bertuzzi and McCabe were all younger players when they were either passed on or given up on. Their salaries were not that high. Wang took over in 2000 and immediately put money into the payroll.
But lets say, for argument’s sake, you had to move these guys because thier salary demands exceeded what the organization could pay for them. If you wait until the players developed into all-stars before moving them, you would have gotten a much higher return for each guy.
Instead of prematurely moving Jokinen and Luongo and settling for two journeymen, you could have held onto both, waited until they developed, and gotten back big packages for both. Same for Bertuzzi/McCabe. Instead of settling for a washed-up Trevor Linden, you could have gotten much more for both. The Luongo-Jokinen/Dipietro and McCabe-Bertuzzi/Linden decisions were just terrible and really hurt this franchise long term.
The past is the past. I only judge what Garth Snow has done. As far as im concerned every trade and signing he made was good except for the Smyth trade. Lets move on and worry about what Snow does in the next 2-3 yrs to make us competetive. I would also judge him on the deadline this yr.
Willis, Thats no NEWSBREAK we as fans have been doing that for Years! Where have you been!
i really love ur page but this is crazy talk..the islanders didnt make one bad trade or bad move, they have made about 50 bad moves and thats what set us back…the bruins made the one bad trade u mentioned, not 10…and yes those moves will haunt us till we have a real team and make a real run…come on chris you cant deal away all the talent for 12 years and say that had nothing to do with the state of our team today.
I just did. Executed properly, three years is all it takes to complete a turnaround…CB
AIM @72 - could not disagree more. It is a fact that the outdated building, together with the team’s high school quality training facility in Syosset (their dressing and weight rooms are essentially trailers), are a joke and make it more difficult for the team to attract freee agents. Perhaps CB can weigh in on that one.
The Rags (and Knicks) sell out every game simply because they are located in the middle of Manhattan, and that is a fact.
I’m not suggesting that it is the sole reason they have trouble attracting players and - yes - if they were winning like Detroit has been it would be a lot easier. However, the fact is that a first class building and training facility will absolutely help in recruting, in the franchise’s perception league wide, in addition to providing the additional revenue needed to compete in the NHL (the last part being the most important part - you can’t build a winner and compete for top free agents each year while losing vast sums of $ from operations).
Can’t say Luongo/Yashin/Palffy/Turgeon ever comes up when I’m telling someone why the Islanders’ goaltending today is imperiled by injury or the forwards can’t finish.
But when someone asks me, “You poor sap, why hasn’t your team been able to get it together for so long?” then I have to bring up that sorry decade-long narrative of mistakes and misfortune: It’s part of the story.
It’s been 1,000 cuts to get here; I’m just glad that - despite this season’s lumps and errors - the club is finally focused on starting over.
Quag I have been to the dreesing rooms in Syosset. Where do you get this info??? The dressing rooms and facility there is top rate and really nice. There are no trailers there. The Islanders have the entire south end of the building as a dressing room with state of the art hot tubs internet service with computers and a lounge CB CAN BACK THIS UP. still wondering about the trailer thing
CB WHEN CAN WE EXPECT SABOURIN I cant imagine we do not pick him up…
There are several things against us now in turning this franchise around:
1) Public Perception of This Team Being a Joke.
(i) 15 year contract for DP (just look at the comments on TSN about his injury; 90% of them are about his contract)
(ii) Circus Ownership (Neil Smith’s 40 days as GM, then backup goalie replaces him)
(iii) Prolonged mediocrity (most recent bona fide excitement was Toronto playoff series)
(iv) Small, outdated arena
2) Poor Draft History. (Self-explanatory)
3) Too Few Good Free Agent Signings/Trades. Streit, Weight (pleasant surprise); otherwise, you have to go back to Aucoin.
Not that this is a contrived tank this year, but getting Tavares would be a shot in the arm in a franchise snoozing in the public’s eye.
Amen Capt. I still have to laugh cause I can remember Snow and CW GUSHING about how awesome it was to lock up the face of the franchise for 15 years and saying look how committed we are to the fans for doing this. God help us!!! Thanks CB cause this blog has provided me a release of so much built up anger my health is only getting better
Luongo, Bertuzzi, and Jokinen all were given ample time and chances while on the Isles. Luongo was the most inconsistent goalie ever to wear the orange and blue. He’d make one incredible save, then let in 3 softees afterwards. Bertuzzi was clueless while he was here, and Jokinen couldn’t hit water if he fell out of a boat. Don’t say they were shipped out of here before they were given a chance. Most franchises–especially small market ones–can’t give prospect 5 seasons of ice time to develop.
AIM - I have played hockey many dozens of times at Iceworks. Last time was a few years back, but at that time their room was the dimensions of a tractor trailer’s trailer (located between the large and small rinks). Whatever the case may be, even if they have upgraded it since then, that facility is still nowhere near professional quality. We can disagree on that if you want, that is fine.
A necessary post CB, and I agree with the principal. The principal of this post guys is that while these were unbelievable errors, this is the team we have and its time to move on and rebuild.
At the same time, I don’t think I’ll personally ever be able to completely move past these moves. A winner in a few years would help, but these will always stay with me. Turgeon was my favorite player, so that one stung but it was a whole other NHL ago. The trading of luongo and jokinen, chara, and not drafting Gaborik/Heatley, Parise, Spezza… there would be no rebuild right now if those things didn’t happen. Just think, if it wasn’t for bone head moves, we’d have Luongo in net, Gaborik and Parise up front with Jokinen or Spezza if we didn’t trade for Yashin, and under that Chara on defense. And thats to say nothing about Bertuzzi, who never would have gone through the debacle he did if he wasn’t traded just before becoming one of the best in the world.
I’m all for looking forward, and I am whole heartedly. But at the same time, the personnel that could have been on the team is astounding.
quag they did perform a total upgrade of the Isles facility there about 3-4 years ago If you get a chance to check it out it is a really nice facility
Jethro09 @ 73. Can’t really disagree with your points and I was not suggesting that free agnecy validated anything, just that you never know what would have happened going forward. The main point of my post was that rather than looking to the past for the ripple effect of trades on the current team, if the team had a star or two and was winning, people would be less worried about awful trades of years past. The current team is what it is. There are new managers and scouts, so we have to judge them on what they are doing now (and for me the jury is still out).
AIM - will definitely check it out, thx.
In regards to a post about Yashin I think that his contract and inability to handle pressure associated with it destroyed #79. When you get paid that much you should expect a bar to be raised. It seems that he just didn’t handle it not to mention that the very same bar was raised even higher when he got “C”. However, he led the team in points in all seasons except two when he was injured and something tells me that if not for the injuries who could have been #1 in points through 2006-2007. There is no question that he was simply overpaid but he nevertheless was a talented player. At the end of his last season with NYI I thought it would make sense for him to take a significant paycut, return “C”, step outside of spotlight and just play the game. On a side note, I recall Peca saying that Toronto’s playoff series could have been career changers for many players on that 2001/2002 team.
2001-2002
78GP 32G 43A 75P #1 in points
2002-2003
81GP 26G 39A 65P #1 in points
2003-2004
47GP 15G 19A 34P #8 in points (Hunter #1 with 77GP & 51P)
2005-2006
82GP 28G 38A 66P #1 in points (tie with Satan)
2006-2007
58GP 18G 32A 50P #6 in points (Blake #1 with 82GP & 69P)
In 2007-2008 Comrie was #1 in points with 49P. 2008-2009?
Tony Post#84 is right on.
I remember half the coliseum yelling for Bertuzzi’s head when he played here. Olli was garbage, people were saying he’s out of shape. Luongo’s another story.
I think the issues brought forth with this post are valid. The key, and probably my most used word in the past three months is ACCOUNTABILITY.
If we are judging Wang, he gets no better than a “D”. First due to his loyalty to a moron. Secondly for comitting to “the comittee”.
Thirdly… the 15 year deal… not looking so good right now.
the only positive checkmarks are that he has tried to put a quality product on the ice, and the Islanders are still on Long Island. I could be selling that fact short… but it would have been hard for anybody to move them from the top of the goldmine. Yes… LONG ISLAND IS A GOLDMINE… Nobody is going to convince me that KC has the potential that Long Island has… when you look at past sins you might want to include the lease signing and mismanagement of the land surrounding the colly.
Snow… IMHO would grade out as a c+, but only that high because of my “expectations management”. He is still learning on the job.
The Smyth deal turns out to be a good effort with negative results. The choice not to sign Blake works in his favor, but he hasn’t replaced those 40 goals either.
Striet was a good signing, but he’s a cherry on a dung heap. Guerin.. positive. Weight… positive… but he blows all of that away by hiring fellow new england goaltender as coach. And we are findong out why Boston (who might win a cup this year) used him as their conditioning coach. Go-go might be a great guy, but a young team, and they will finally be a young team next year… should have somebody to guide them… and not be in a “blind leading the blind” situation.
Correct that blunder and prove that the 2008 draft was well thought out and he might even get an A- with a sub .500 team next year.
Chris… you grade out to an A- already… but only because you’re gonna ban me after my 300 word post.
Winning cures all. If the Isles can put together a winning product and win a few playoff series, then there will be no more talk of 1992-93, 2001-02, or any of the down times in between.
Gotta start somewhere but until it happens, all fans are going to do is look back at what could have been.
And as one person put it, the Isles have forfeited their benefit of the doubt. Fans aren’t willing to make any more leaps of faith. They want sound hockey and personnel decisions.
Build a winner, and the faith and trust comes back.
CB, can you say specifically why they traded Turgeon? LaFontaine was hard to part with but Turgeon was awesome for us. I never knew why he was traded though.
The Islanders have to start scouting better and improve their drafting process. Whoever makes these decisions HAS to get better or needs to step aside. Each year they have passed on way too many players who turned out much better than the Islanders picks. They obtained a cluster of picks last year and are trying to do the same this year-which I’m all for. But they have to start turning out good 2nd and 3rd round picks-players who can make your team and be role players. Model how the Blackhawks, Capitals, and Penguins have drafted. The only 1st round pick that’s turned out to be ANY good since Ricky D is Okposo and really, the jury is still out on him. Bailey is improving but if you watch him he is very tenative to shoot and is still a few years away. They passed on like 6 guys to get Bailey all of which are in the NHL as well and are better. I like Bailey but I think I like him because I want him to be great to justify the trade down to get him plus the extra picks.
Tony…Luongo played 24 games as an Islander. That’s ample time? Someone tell that to Jeff Tambellini! Jokinen played one season for the Isles. You have a pretty steep learning curve…one that would probably see our current crop of kids shipped out of here at season’s end and declared busts.
I’m not sure Dany Sabourin is that much of an upgrade over Danis. What would the Islanders be trying to accomplish with Sabourin around? It’s not like he’s had success in Pittsburgh or in Edmonton, and there’s no point in winning 25 games with Sabourin instead of 22 games with Danis.
If anything, it looks worse to bring in Sabourin to “stop the bleeding” because when he doesn’t, it makes the entire team look worse because it will reveal that the entire team is just that bad…it’s not just our goalie situation, it’s also a very leaky defense.
Also, to those of us that are Islanders conspiracy theorists…and I know you’re out there…aren’t you just waiting for the Islanders to finish solidly in 30th with the best chance at the Tavares lottery…and then the league sticks it to us again with the frozen envelope trick so Tavares can go to one of the wonderful Southern hockey markets. *sigh*
@ #94 Yes! Islanders:
Don Maloney traded Turgeon post-lockout in 1995…the Islanders were awful that year and Maloney decided to remake the team…it was his second-worst move in a tenure filled with bad moves. (The worst was his last move, which brought Mike Milbury to LI.)
On paper the trade was roughly balanced (Turgeon and Vladimir Malakhov for Kirk Muller and Mathieu Schneider)…but Muller was doomed from the start.
talk about timing
http://www.newsday.com/sports/hockey/islanders/ny-spmark0122,0,6500985.column
Garth is on Fan590 now. http://www.fan590.com
saw the caps game ovechkin is protected by a big team. parise simarily by a large devils team. the islanders smallish past draft chices and future tavares? are not going to score without protection. anybody who watched the caps game had to notice how small the isles are in comparison with wash. check out the tsn team roster cite dealing with size and do the math the isles are either the smallest team inthe sport or close to it depending on how you deal with height and weight. the check out the top teams like the caps. flyers.rangers, red wings etc etc
Isles didn’t claim Sabourin. Keeping it in the family.
Really Nick? I hope that just means Mac is about ready to come back. If not, I’m lost on the reasoning. What if Danis goes down? Mannino/Dunham?
Fichaud is doing nothing
I just learned something about the draft I didn’t know.
Please correct me if this isn’t true.
While only five teams have a shot at getting the number 1 pick, all non-playoff qualifiers go into the lottery.
Those not in the top 5 can move up 5 spots, and the total percentage chance that one of those five teams has is about 15-16%. So if the Isles finish last, is their chance of winning the lottery their own 25% chance, plus the 15-16% of the teams not in the bottom 5? Because if one of those teams win it, none can move up to #1.
Am I reading this correctly?
Let’s not forget Don Maloney
JayK…the good thing is that if the Isles finish last…the worst they can do is the # 2 pick.
#104 UIF
J-Mac will be back next week at the absolute earliest; perhaps the front office thinks they can muddle through with Danis until then–it’s not like they have anything to lose by doing so. If Danis goes down then I suppose you’d have to put Mannino in there until you find someone better.
Isles_goal, yes, thanks, I knew that. But the scenario I laid out is one I didn’t know. But it makes sense, because if the #1 pick only has a 25% chance, otherwise it would mean the other 75 pcerentage points have to be divided among 4 teams, and that makes no sense.
To #105 - the NHL Draft Lottery explained…
1st Round
Picks 1-14: Teams ranked by points. Balls numbered 1-14 are selected to form series of numbers with the 14 Teams involved assigned combinations of numbers using a probability chart. The four-digit series that results from the balls drawn are be compared to the probability chart to determine the team to which that combination has been assigned. There are 1,001 numerical combinations possible, with one combination eliminated to make the odds fair; if the eliminated combination is drawn (a 0.1% probability), the drawing is immediately re-done. The percentage chance of being selected in the lottery is as follows, based on team finish:
30th: 25.0% (250 combinations), but a 48.2% chance of picking first
29th: 18.8% (188 combinations)
28th: 14.2% (142 combinations)
27th: 10.7% (107 combinations)
26th: 8.1% (81 combinations)
25th: 6.2% (62 combinations)
24th: 4.7% (47 combinations)
23rd: 3.6% (36 combinations)
22nd: 2.7% (27 combinations)
21st: 2.1% (21 combinations)
20th: 1.5% (15 combinations)
19th: 1.1% (11 combinations)
18th: 0.8% (8 combinations)
17th: 0.5% (5 combinations)
The team selected in the lottery may not move up more than four positions in the draft order. Thus the only clubs with the opportunity to receive the 1st overall selection are the five clubs with the lowest regular-season point totals (or clubs that acquired those clubs’ first-round drafting positions). No club can move down more than one position as a result of the lottery. Under the weighted lottery system, the club with the fewest regular-season points will have the greatest chance (25%) of winning the lottery and will pick no lower than second at the Entry Draft.
—-
So, in effect, we have a 48.2% chance of the #1 pick, and cannot go lower than the #2 pick if we have the worst record.
Great.
I feel better.
Chris, I disagree with your basic concept - but agree that you make a compelling argument.
The sad thing here is that we cannot “fast forward” the season, we have to stick in there and take our lumps.
I think our lot in life has to do with a collective mismanagement of the team. I think Mr. Wang is well intentioned - but the problems run deeper than our trading record - which is just AWFUL over the past 10 years and our Draft record which has been BARELY ok - but the talented players who we drafted and traded ( Luongo, Chara, et al) and the “opportunity cost” players ( not picking Gaborik or Parise) have really set this franchise back.
Fans need a place like this to whine and moan about the past. The drafting and trade records have been PART of the problem - but not the entire problem.
Inability to attract primo free agents hurts too.
I think that stability is what this team craves. Stability in ownership ( which will be enhanced if the Lighthouse goes through) - Stability in GM/Coach role - instead of revolving door coaches - stability in the lineup -where a player actually plays here (healthy) for more than a few years - and a stability in our IDENTITY on and off the ice.
Now wearing my “glass half full” hat - lets get Tavares or Hedman (preferably Taveras) and really start to turn this thing around.
I have been to many games this year - and will be there tonight.
This team is becoming fun to watch - and they compete. I am not sold on Gordon totally - but I do like the system, just that we don’t have the guys to execute it.
Injuries have killed us.
I have not given up on the intermediate future of this team to compete and succeed.
Time to get Taveras and maintain stability and confidence in our teams future HERE on LI.
That is my wish for 2009 - is that tough problems get addressed both on and off the ice.
Pat
Chris, I completely agree with what you wrote. I’m tired of hearing Isles fans complain about past trades and events. What’s worse is then listening to them play the role of GM to fix the team or seeing them compile a current Isles roster including the players that we traded away. What’s done is done.
One thing I would like to add to your article is that fans are also obsessed with players traded when they become good players AFTER the Isles. The perfect example of this is Jokinen. He would have never thrived on the Islanders. When you get traded, you get new coaches, new players, you learn new things from those coaches and players. One of the biggest impacts on Jokinen’s play was Mike Keenan. Before Keenan coached him, he was a 3rd/4th liner. If he stayed with the Isles, Keenan wouldn’t have had that impact on him and he’d probably still be a 3rd/4th liner.
smith 77 while jokinen may have turned out to be a 3rd/4th liner had he stayed here, he would have been a huge improvement over that floating waste kvasha
CB, have you ever gone fishing or talked about old high school girlfriends? The one that got away is the most fun to talk about. While I agree that no one move killed the Islanders, (the Turgeon move drove the fans away. The building has been empty since) we need to change the whole philosophy and culture arond this team. While trading Luongo is no longer affecting the teams record, neither is winning four Cups. What kills me is the nonsense of draft philosophies the team has been espousing. Milbury wanted size. Snow keeps talking about character. Can’t we draft a short jerk who can put the puck in the net?
Worst move? firing Laviolette.
The Islanders are making a big mistake not bringing in Sabourin. This proves to me that the Isles management just don’t know what they’re doing. He played meaningful games for Pittsburgh both last year and this year while Fluery was hurt. In the end he began to struggle and they looked elsewhere- more experienced/better insurance in Conklin last year and Garon this year. They have a franchise goalie in Fluery so they don’t need a young, improving guy like Sabourin. Yann Danis is terrible-I’m sorry to say it but he is. Playing pretty well the past couple games but Gordo has to tell him to STOP HANDLING THE PUCK PERIOD!!!! He has cost them 2 goals already and I cringe everytime I see him skate towards a puck. Let’s face it-the Isles are going to finish last anyway with MacDonald, Sabourin, or Dubielewicz between the pipes. They could steal a few games but the team is awful-they can’t score or stop the other teams from scoring to win on any consistent basis. At least Sabourin would be an upgrade over Danis. And we don’t have to watch the team go another 2-23 the next 25 games. This is beginning to remind me of the putrid 1996-99 years. I just hope they can get Tavares with the number 1 pick. If he even agrees to come to Long Island. I’ve heard rumors that he will pull a Eric Lindros if the Islanders draft him. Let’s hope not!
29 teams figure a way to win games, make a little money and play in a modern arena. Not the Islanders…Remember, I am one who looks at this as a 20 year rebuilding process. 20 years ago the Devils, Nordiques and Islanders were all equally bad. The Devils and Nordiques rebuilt the right way. They won cups. And my Nordiques example is intentional. Because the future success of the Isles might be in Kansas City, just like Colorado.
I like the post from Sir William r/e the draft from 2000 on down. It definitely paints the picture of ineptitude. So who was in charge of the 2006 draft? That draft was a solid draft. Neil Smith seemed to know what he was doing. I never agreed with his dismissal. He was anxious to build a winner for Long Island and wanted another shot at building a great team. His draft in 2006 will pay dividends in two years. All those players drafted will make a difference, Jonnessu, Rhett Rhat, Figren and ofcourse Okposo! Just when we get back on point, we seem to make changes for no reason and we fall back. Snow has done a good job but I still believe Neil Smith woul dhave made a bigger difference.
Agreed Joe. I was thrilled when the Islanders got Neil Smith. Then like two weeks later he was out. I never understood that. Big mistake. Here’s hoping Snow does as well as Smith has in his history as a GM. Alot of picks last year-some are supossed to be real good. Hopefully more on the way this year. And higher pick-which can’t be a bad thing. But we’re talking at least 4-5 years away on all of them except Bailey-and he’s probably 3-4 years away still needs alot of work and improvement-But your right that ‘06 draft I’ve heard alot of good things about those players. But Neil smith knew hockley inside and out. Not so sure about Garth. Fingers crossed Joe!
Don’t forget the Islanders made the playoffs that year. Smith signed Witt and Sillinger. Big contributers to that team. I think a few other guys too.