NO-MOVE MEANS NO-MOVE
Expect captain Bill Guerin to remain an Islander
There may still be plenty of Islanders action prior to the March deadline, but it likely will not involve the status of Bill Guerin.
The captain has a no-move clause in his contract, and during the NHL season that usually means a player is not moving.
Sure, no-trade and no-move clauses have been waived before, most recently in the cases of Bryan McCabe and Dan Boyle. But those were off-season deals, giving both McCabe and Boyle plenty of time to make important life decisions and move their families.
I don’t see a trade for Guerin coming together in-season. As much as some contenders would love to have Guerin on their rosters, most teams don’t like the complicated nature of acquiring a player with an NTC. They don’t like having to woo their potential acquisition in the middle of a hockey season. They don’t like the assets they would relinguish in the deal getting out in the press, only to see the trade crater.
(The only other Islander to have a no-trade clause in the last decade was Miroslav Satan. At last year’s trade deadline, not one NHL team wanted the hassle of acquiring Miro for a draft pick and convincing him to move.)
The now 38-year old Guerin won a Stanley Cup in New Jersey at age 24 and has played for 7 NHL teams. He has worked on both coasts, at home (for the Bruins), in the heartland and in Canada. Two years ago, he had the experience of being a “rental” for the San Jose Sharks. Guerin is not done, but he has done it all.
If Peter Chiarelli came knocking on the door with an invitation to help bring the Stanley Cup back to Boston, I assume the Islanders captain would be flattered and at least listen. If the Bruins offered Snow their 2009 very late first round pick and gave Scott Gordon one player of his choice off the Providence roster, the Islanders would listen. Other than this scenario - a longshot - Guerin is probably staying in New York.
Bill Guerin earned a no-move clause in his two-year Islanders contract with an all-star body of work on the ice and impeccable reputation off it. It’s not a leap to say he pushed for it in negotiations because he was tired of moving and hoped the Islanders would match his commitment to them. The team thought so much of the player, they named him captain before Guerin ever played a game in their jersey. Guerin has done everything the organization expected of him.
Although Guerin probably did not envision a complete rebuilding program a year after he signed on, he has been a model captain. He has played well. He has been a positive influence in down times (did you see him glow like a kid last week when Jeff Tambellini and Josh Bailey scored their goals?). More importantly, he and his friend Doug Weight have been the Islanders’ biggest, most reputable advocates at a time when the last-place team can be an easy target.
Allow me to go out on a limb and predict that Guerin and Weight would gladly forego freedom on July 1 in order to re-up with the Islanders for another season. Maybe that’s not a bad idea.
The Islanders moved mountains last June so they could select 18-year olds three times in the second round and three times in the third round of the ‘08 draft. For the 2009 draft, they will have one of the first 5 picks in the first round, and they already have three second round picks.
It was a primarily different scouting staff back then, but before ‘08 the last time the Islanders had three second round selections was in 2003. They drafted PB favorite Jeremy Colliton and two Russians who never came close to making the NHL. One of them was out of hockey within two years.
What do the Islanders need more right now: a fourth needle in the haystack of the second round, or two former great, now very good players and superlative role models in Guerin and Weight who are fiercely loyal to Scott Gordon?
What price credibility? We’re going to find out over the next few months.
Comments. Guidelines.
104 Responses to “NO-MOVE MEANS NO-MOVE
Expect captain Bill Guerin to remain an Islander”
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You make many excellent points here, CB. I really do believe that Weight and Guerin would both re-up for two years each here, even at a more reasonable cost. It is not worth trading either Guerin or Weight if it only lands us a second round pick, to be completely honest. The benefit of having each of them on the ice the next two season far outweighs the return of two second rounders right now. Let us trade Comrie, Witt, Martinek, and whoever else does not seem to fit the mold any longer. We must do our best to try and land Bouwmeester and Komisarek, and give our defense a little bit of a reputation.
When you count the number of teams that probably think they have a shot at the Cup — 11? 12? — and then you count the number of teams on the bubble to make the playoffs after a long absence — Kings, Panthers, Blue Jackets — I am starting to become more convinced that somebody like Weight might even pull in a first-rounder, like what the Flyers got when they moved Zhitnik to Atlanta two years ago.
CB - On the one hand I agree 100%. Weight and Guerin have both been great on the ice and off. If GMG can’t get more than 2nds for them they should stay put.
However, how much do either of them have left in the tank? One more season maybe? Can’t we replace vet leadership in the offseason and stockpile some more picks in a deep draft?
Should be an interesting couple of months for sure.
Re-upping, year-to-year, wouldn’t be bad. If they want NTC, then a hometown discount would be nice.
If I am Garth, I put a one-year $4m in front of them or a one-year $3m NTC. Let them pick.
If Guerin declines, he’d probably have a destination in mind for a playoff run - let him go for whatever they’ll give.
If Weight declines, you trade him a week or two before the deadline and see if Guerin changes his mind (if not gone.)
Ideally, however, they re-sign the lower $ NTC for next year soon and we put this story to bed.
Would have no issue if they stay. For all the reasons mentioned they have been valuable assets to this team.
Great guys that can both still play and most importantly WANT to be Islanders.
I think all fans agree that this year is mostly a tear down year which constitutes the “beginning phase” of the rebuilding process. In my opinion it would be a mistake to re-sign Guering and Weight, especially for two years a piece.
Let’s think this through…If the Isles draft Tavares, they will have, Tavares, Bailey and Neilsen at center, as a 1-2-3 combo. Yes Weight is having a good year, but at his age it cannot last. Better to get a fourth or 3rd line center this coming summer or promote from within. As for Guerin, I can see some merits in resigning him but not at 2 yrs. To CB’s point, the Isles will never get a 1st rounder and a propect for a 38 yr old Guerin, and no team will offer such a package and I believe they would accept much less.
With the follies of the past 2 seasons (teams not able to resign the players they traded for at the deadline- ie- Smyth, Hossa…). I would not be surprised at all to see the trade deadline day be alot less hecktic this season, especially with these uncertain economic times and teams beginning to realize the importance of draft picks in a cap system…Again, my 2 cents worth…
when Weight got into a fight against the Sharks, he became my favorite player on the team. he’s a great asset to have around young players … Guerin too. keep them, Hunter, Park and Hilbert. Trade everyone else with more than 4 years NHL experience.
I’m not opposed to keeping Guerin and Weight another year if the best offers are 2nd round picks, but how many players on a 12 win team do you want to keep? Guerin and Weight offer leadership and serve almost as assistant coaches, but if the Islanders can receive talent back for these players, I dont see how you can idle.
Nash is out in Columbus, Maybe CLB becomes more desperate for weight Now.
it looks like the decision to move guerin will be made for us b/c of his nmc. weight is a tricky call. i really like him a lot and he’s been great for the isles on and off the ice. i think if the isles are offered a first rounder and/or a top prospect for weight they have to trade him but otherwise you keep him. having weight say good things about the isles is a very good thing.
It’s a tough decision to trade such a stand-up guy like Weight. But you have to do what’s best for the team. If they can get a first and a decent prospect out of it then trade him. If we keep him, he can only help. No more second rounders.
The same rules apply as last year: Don’t attempt to trade these guys if the trade market is depressed. I’ve never been one to make a trade for the sake of making one, especially since a Weight or Guerin is far more valuable than a flyer in the 3rd round of the draft. I would be fine with keeping them on to mentor the kids, but I also agree with the above poster who mentioned that there are so many teams on the bubble we might be able to get at least 1 more 1st round pick. For that price, I think you almost have to, but for a lower price, keep ‘em.
I also believe that Weight and Guerin should stay. They are GREAT role models for the kids and both have been contributing to the scoreboard also. If I was GM, I wouldn’t listen to any offer that doesn’t include a 1st Rder. The chance you take on a non-1st is not worth the leadership lost. Although far from guaranteed, there is more potential in a 1st Rd.
On the other hand, if weight resigns, what will the potential depth chart look like next year at center if we end up drafting Tavares? *crosses fingers and toes*
Weight
Bailey
Tavares (Hopefully!!)
Neilsen
No defensive/checking center.
Angelo - I’d call that a rich man’s problem. No need to worry about that now.
CB, you mentioned that “It was a primarily different scouting staff back then” I know the Islanders were always respected for their Scouting Staff and Draft picks in the past. Can you do a write up on our Scouting Staff or can you Tell us who we had as Scouts and who we have now?
trading weight would most likely result in a significant decline in the PP and overall offensive production.
trading weight might indirectly result in NYI remaining in the 28-30 zone. Keeping him may result in 24-30.
Even if the Isles get to draft Tavares, I don’t think you want to throw him in as your first line center immediately, before he’s ever even played a game in the NHL.
That said, giving Guerin the NMC was probably not the smartest thing to do. And now if we talk about taking Weight off the table as well, we’re sellers at the deadline with nothing to sell? We’ve taken our best young players off the table already, and now our best vets as well. We can’t trade Guerin, don’t want to trade Weight, and don’t want to trade Streit. I don’t necessarily disagree on any of them in particular, but a rebuilding team that plans to be a seller with nothing to sell makes very little sense to me. What we’re really saying is we’re fine going into next season more or less as is - minus maybe Witt…and possibly Comrie…and MAYBE plus a player from the draft if we’re lucky enough to get one that’s NHL-ready. If that’s year 2 of the rebuild, then color me skeptical.
Btw, there’s more than draft picks you can get from these teams. Some NHL teams have decent talent in the system buried on the depth chart because of too many players at a given position.
IMO People Who Will Be Dealt…..WITT And WEIGHT…I Think Thats About It.
I have no idea..this all gets to confusing for my blood, there’s so much that needs to be done with this team on so many levels, I feel and this is just my thoughts..I feel we have some pretty decent guys playing with us, who we get in the trade/draft obviously will impact this team in some way, I hope within the next few seasons we start to see some light at the end of this long tunnel.
Have a nice day everyone..
I mused about this the other night, but assuming he wants to re-sign, I don’t trade Weight unless he fetches a likely top-half 1st-round pick. And no team likely to finish in the 15-30 area has any business renting Weight. (Any contenders have someone else’s 1st-rounders in their stock?)
I’d rather have Weight around next year as a model for our youngsters than, say, Comrie.
I think Snow has to trade weight and witt. Id also like to trade park for a 2nd and a prospect. I feel like we need to trade almost everyone who teams want and are willing to give us a nice return for.
There’s a hidden factor as well… how well would it be received around the league if the Isles traded a guy they just signed as a FA this past offseason (Weight)? Few people enjoy the thought of committing someplace only to hear that the team that wooed you did so only for what you could get them when they bundled you off. That could discourage other players from signing up for a tough rebuild the way that Weight and Streit have done. Comrie, Hunter, Park, and Witt are better candidates for any trade.
And it has to be said - if the team can grab a bona fide first-line threat at the cost of players like Comeau, Bergenheim, Tambellini, and/or Neilsen, they have to consider it. Not likely as Neilsen is hurt and Bergie/Tambi look rather bust-esque… but what if someone pulls a Maloney and lets the Isles grab a monster like Bouwmeester for two of those guys plus one of the vets? (And frankly THEY OWE US ONE.) Unless they were absolutely sure Bowie would pull a Smyth and refuse to sign, how could they not at least consider it?
Chris, This is one of the rare times I am going to disagree with you. While I have been saying Guerin wasn’t going to be moved because of the NMC, players still need to moved even for an additional 2nd. The more seconds you have the more likely it is you can find a deal to move back into the first round around the 20 pick mark. So it’s not necessarily about picking 4, 5, 6 times in round two/three, it’s more about getting that elusive additional first round pick.
Anyone who thinks this team will be better off in the long run with one additional 2nd round pick than it would be with Weight and Guerin sticking around another year is completely off their rocker. There are several things at play here. First, there are no guarantees that anyone you draft is going to be an NHL player, EVER! Weight and Guerin are known quantities. Sure they aren’t going to play at the level they did 5 or 6 years ago, but they can still play. Second, assuming we actually get Tavares, anyone who thinks that icing JT, Bailey and Nielson as our top three centers next season is doing anything but asking for trouble needs to get their head checked. To put that kind of pressure on two kids under 20 and one guy who has yet to play an entire season at this level would be insanity. There has to be at least one top three center on this roster with legit experience. Weight it that guy. We let him play at least one more year as our number one, JT and Bailey get the chance to play second and third line, giving them a little less pressure and Nielson continues to cut his teeth as the 4th line guy (He is much better defensively than he is offensively right now anyway). Plus, who better to show the young centers the ropes than a guy like Weight? I understand that we are rebuilding and I am all for it, but if this team were a house that you were putting a dormer on, would you tear down half of the support beams while trying to keep the second story in tact? I don’t think so. Guerin, Weight, Park, Streit, Sutton and Hunter are all part of the veteran foundation that will keep this team together during the first part of this rebuild. We need to keep in mind that filling the NHL roster with kids who aren’t ready, so we can draft more kids who will be 4 to 5 years away, will probably set us back even more. Once guys like Okposo, Bailey, Comeau, Nielson and whomever our top pick this year is, are ready to be the leaders on this team, we can let the older guys move on. Until then, this team needs some vets to hold the fort. No one seems more willing to do that than Weight and Guerin, so let them stay.
The best solution here is to rent Guerin, Weight and Comrie out at the deadline and then re sign them in the summer much like St. Louis did with Keith Tkachuck (SIC).
This way everybdy wins. I am sure that Snow can find some way to communictae his intentions to all three players without stepping over the NHL’s rulebook……SW
Color me undecided on this issue. Can’t wait to see everything unfold. Glad I am not the GM!
Nightfly - please do not compare Bergie to Tambi
Could not agree more Mr. Botta. These two guys put a great face on the franchise and rahter than trade them for mid-round garbage picks, should be resigned to continue working with all the younger players and setting great examples for how to handle yourself on and off the ice.
Guess who’s becoing invisible again? Yup, it’s Jeff Invisibellini. Shifting to more positive things, the Isles should PACKAGE players like guerin, weight, comrie, witt to get late 1st round picks which could then be used in conjunction with 1 or 2 second round picks to move up in the first half of the first round.
Who is available on the free agent market this summer to replace Weight as top center if he is dealt at the deadline? Isles potentially have an advantage this summer for free agency due to their cap room, the salary cap may come down as a result of the poor economy and the Isles will be one of the few teams with cap space even if the cap is lowered.
I have no problem with Guering’s leadership off the ice. But his inconsistent play upsets me sometimes. Lately he has been unnoticeable big “0″ in games. The big “C” on his jersey gives him more responsibility then anybody else.
If his shift is playing, everyone has to feel that the Capitan is on the ice. I dont know the real reason (maybe he is just mentaly or physicaly tired), but he gives up on the plays to many times.
I know that this is only the first year of Weight being an Islander, but his presents on the ice is much more visible and flashy then Guerin’s. I see Weight is much better candidate for the person the young Isles to follow.
Or maybe I just asking for too much.
Why not trade them both to New Jersey if you can? They probably wouldn’t even have to move then; whoud they? (I’m not from New York) I could see the Penguins needing both of them too, especially Guerin to play wing with Crosby. I agree with UIF sellers with nothing to sell and then the same personnel in the folowing year. That’s not re-building that’s staying put/status quo. If we want these guys back offer the best package with the most security next year.
Well said, Rick from LI.
Hate to say it, ’cause I love the guy, but it makes far more sense to trade Witt than it does either Guerin or Weight. Would probably make sense to see what you could get for Comrie and Martinek, too.
And anyone who thinks that a 2nd round pick and/or prospect (which may or may not ever turn into anything) is better than the damn-near-perfect all-around game that Richard Park provides RIGHT NOW is completely out of their mind. Sure, he seems to have bloomed late, but who cares - players with such complete games do not come around all that often. Isles would need at least two players to even try to replace what he provides for them.
CT Isles - why not? Both first rounders, both 24, both (thus far) middling at best. They do play different games: Bergenheim takes more dumb penalties and Tambellini misses more open nets/teammates - but in their impact, they are not dissimilar. Bergenheim might have more value as a trade chip, seeing as Tambellini has already been traded once and has been a bit less productive.
Either or both may suddenly get it together and become a good player. And as much as I hate for the Isles to bail early yet again on a prospect, I stand by my earlier statement - if it cost one or even both of those guys to help bring back a legitimate first-liner or top-pair defender, it would merit serious consideration from the Isles. It would be worth the risk.
What will it take for some of you to understand that the late season rental/come back next year thing isn’t going to happen for either Guerin or Weight? Guerin’s contract probably seals that for him. And - as has been noted on this blog several times - Weight has already come out and said that he will not be receptive to coming back if the Isles rent him out.
Trading one or both of them might still happen, but don’t expect them back next year if it does.
Sure Guerin and Weight are having great seasons. But that is why you trade them now… or at least attempt to.
There is no way Weight keeps it up.
If we can trade Weight,Comrie, Witt for a decent return then do it.
I think Witt is gone for sure, and either Weight or Comrie will go too.
I would rather keep Comrie, he has a little more upside.
Even if it means a couple high second round picks or maybe late first rounders.
You can use these picks to move up in the draft, or even trade for other players.
If Weight, and Guerin want to come back next year… great. Sign them up for another year for 2-3 million each.
If snow could get Bow signed to a 5 year deal I’d swap first round picks and give them campoli or one of the liliputians they drafted last year. Who wouldn’t give up an all-star rental for a SHOT at a super-star. The bet is that the last place team won’t win the lottery anyway, and we’d get (bustable) Hedman anyway.
I’d then bring in a Pres of hockey ops like Pat Quin and let him hire a coach over the off season. He might even work well with Snow. But there is no way he’d allow a team in his charge play in dresses.
To me that’s better than waiting 5 years to see playoff hockey at the coliseum.
You also get the added value of taking Quinn to county meetings… Instead of chatting up the receptionist, he might get the lighthouse built as well!
People don’t want our garbage. Witt, at -1,000, will not fetch a very good return. Teams pushing for the playoffs are generally not looking for struggling players, or a gamble, or a player they have to work with to restore confidence. They want someone who is performing and can fill a hole to put them over the top. The ones who are getting it done now and are not in the Isles’ future are the ones you have to move…if not for picks, then for young talent. Keeping them because we like them, or because they’re great guys, is not going to help the rebuild. We have a whole team full of vets…there’ll be plenty of people left who can show the young guys the ropes who may not be as valuable on the market.
Seriously, if we don’t want picks and prospects anymore, then what’s the point of “rebuilding”? Let’s just trade all our picks and prospects for a whole team of Weights and Guerins.
Who cares if weight and guerin are here next yr. They are both 2nd liners and old men. We need young guys…
This is a hard one. You’d hate to lose someone who willingly came to LI and has played his heart out here. But, call me crazy, I think if you package Weight with Tambs and one of our d-men you could end up with something very nice in return, something more than just a draft pick. There are teams (especially out west) that could really use a proven veteran forward and a more experienced d-man for their final push. Just throw in Tambs for spits-and-giggles and we win via addition by subtraction.
If I was Garth I would keep and resign both Weight and Guerin for the right price), even if they play a little lesser role next year. As this team gets younger, you also need leaders. You can’t get much better than these two. Who will replace them? They want to stay and are being prductive. I think Snow will get more for Comrie and Witt. Getting more picks may mean more depth, but doesn’t mean better player.
I would love the centers to be Weight, Bailey, Tavares, and Neilsen (in no specific order). Being strong down the middle is important and who better to have than Weight to show the way.
This team also needs to get better on the back end. Hopefully through free agency (Komi or JayBo) they can improve. They have a lot of cap space and spending the money on defence would be the way to go. Let the kids up front play and learn from the vets, but bulk up on the back end, and with a healthy DP, they can be a better team starting next year!
I dont understand the sentiment of some of us Islander fans. Doug Weight is NOT 28, 29 or even 34 years old. Have him around next year for what? I love him, think he has been GREAT for us so far, but we have played 1/2 a season and everyone wants to keep him around because he said he wants to stay. We must make this team better, and in the long run, making this team better means trading a 38yr old Doug Weight whether he is a great guy (which we have come to find out) or not. As for Guerin, nothing wrong with keeping him until the end of next year. He is the captain and has proven to be a good leader. Then if need be, trade him at NEXT years deadline.
If you can get a first rounder for Weight or any of these guys, either even up or throwing in one of our 2nd rounders, you do it. Especially if it’s a bubble team. You never know. Bubble teams can crash and burn in the last month and we may end up with two top 10’s. Anything less than a first, keep ‘em.
Weight and Guerin bring 30 plus years of hockey and profesionalism experience to this organization. Did you hear the passion in Weight’s voice on the Edmonton game? It’s like having 5 coaches out there. Not to mention the work ethic of Park and Hilbert…yes Hilbert.
Folks….Folks, we’ve had seasons with 4 first rounders!!!! Anybody see Kudroc or Mezei latley??? Torres???? Pyatt??? Concussion Connelly? Keep the LEADERS here. Use the 2nd rounders to move up if we see something exposed in the early round. Hell….have Guerin and Weight at the draft table. Some one mentioned the fight that Weight had….and he was injured at the time! This team will be better sooner than we think. Watching KO, Blakey, and Bailey in EDM the other night was great. These kids need the experience to follow, the leadership to learn from. BTW….Trevor Smith WILL score 20 goals in this league…he just looks smart out there.
Go Islanders
k..I’ve been watching hockey a long time kinda embarrassed to ask this but can someone explain to me what you guys mean when you say “rent” a player
what exactly happens, how is that done?
The idea that keeping weight somehow makes us closer to where we want to be is crazy. We need prospects and draft choices. that way you maximize the chances of getting some NHL players. Yes you need veteran leadership but if you can get a second and a prospect you trade weight. We arent going to be contenders until 3 or 4 years from now (at least the type of contenders we hope we are) and weights trade value may never be higher than this season. But if Isles fans are content with maybe being the 8th seed in 2 years and not restocking the cupboards more and keeping on being mediocre well then keep weight.
Ok the captain is not going anywhere and trust me I am a big Doug Weight fan.
But if they can get a late first rounder for weight and one of our late 2nd’s then i take that deal. Weight is valuable to the Isles right now but maybe another first is more vauable. Its hard to say right now because we dont know what offers are out there.
Who knows, the NHL draft is very hit or miss.
But there are plenty of good players in the 2nd round. Blake Comeau is one of them.
Everything we are doing now is for Draft Day.
We need as many picks as we can get.
Do whatever you have to do to aquire another first or a couple more second round picks.
If we keep up with the plan to rebuild, and the LightHouse finally gets going. The free agents will come here.
This plan needs 2 more years.
We will be better next year.
I can’t understand how ANYONE would want to get rid of Bergenheim or Park. Bergenheim is maturing and has been playing so well recently. I can see him potting 20 this year if he keeps it up. He is one of the only players who plays with an edge and he is starting to score. Trading Park for a second rounder would be a huge mistake. He has been consistantly one of the best all around fowards we have had in some time and he is only getting better.
We need help on DEFENSE. Our goal production is up this year and will only get better next year as Bailey, Okposo, Comeau and Nielson get better. We need to improve our D. It is horrible at this point. It is so bad that JMAC gets third star of the month for going 8-5. Streit is our only good Dman. Campoli is at a crossroads right now, Gervais is a depth man, Sutton and Martinek are always hurt, Meyer is pretty good but a 5 or 6 dman, Witt is not right in this system. We need HEDMAN on this team long term. I know that is not popular to say, but our D is terrible and we have no top level prospects (Hillen may turn out OK). I really feel offensively we will be fine.
Everything we’re doing is not just for draft day but for the future in general: So there are other factors beyond collecting picks (although I’m usually a fan of hording picks): like having glue veterans who *like Long Island* around to help make a Tavares-type settle in comfortably with the club rather than count down the days until he’s a free agent.
There are no certainties in this, of course — which is what makes this such a fun topic. We’re playing a guessing game and deciding based on our perception of odds. Armchair GM-ing at its best!
Dmarie, a rental player is someone who is picked up at or around the dead line who isn’t signed after the season. Teams usually obtain for a playoff/cup run. Kevin Fitz we do need Dmen there is no doubt about it. I disagreee with Hedman though. We can use those second round picks to obtaion some defense and stock up on some big bodies which we need. We need butts in the seats more than anything and Taveras can do that. We would sell out more games and season ticket sales would sky rocket after if we could draft him!
Dmarie: when a team trades for a player at the trade deadline who will be a free agent at the end of the season, he is referred to as a “rental player”. For example, Isles picked up Ryan Smyth at the trade deadline and kept him through the playoffs, however he left at the end of the season to sign with Colorado.
Sorry Matt, I should have hit refresh.
What crediblity do the isles have with Weight/Guerin or without them…None. They are last in the NHL & that would be the same with or without them…..Snow should work on trading them before the trade deadline…I hate this attitude by players that they don’t want to be away from their families for 6 weeks to play meaningful playoff games with teams that want you…CB - Boyle & McCabe are bad examples b/c that is a different story when you have a multi year deal….WAH
#50… you are correct. The defence does need an overhaul.
If we end up second in the draft… then we get Hedman.
If not then try for Komi.
We need more prospects on D. That’s why we need more draft picks.
The more picks you aquire, the better chance you hit on one of these guys.
I would like to see CB to a top 30 draft prospects for 2009 Draft.
What do you think CB… do you have it in ya…lol.
To the poster above who asked… “renting” a player means you trade for an unrestricted free agent towards the end of a season to help with either a playoff push or a shot at the cup, with the understanding that the player will likely sign elsewhere when the season ends.
Did anybody hear the broadcast of the Oiler game when Weight stuck around for two full periods in the broadcast booth? Freaking class guy, and a great role model, which these kids need. Please Garth, keep Doug Weight. Use Comrie, Witt and Martinek to get picks, to the extent possible.
This is an excellent article, Chris!!!
Well done, and I think you made points that all Isles fans need to consider.
Logan has a live chat on the Newsday blog starting right now, if anyone is interested.
If we want to get tavares trading the vets will only help ensure we suck enough to do that. Only veteran I dont consider trading is Streit. If weight wants to reup now for another year then keep him, otherwise ship him out. Everything should be considered. We are 12-25 and need to bring in talent. lol
I agreed with CB more on Jan. 4 when he wrote:
“Guerin and Weight have beautiful young families, are sincerely committed to the Islanders and for good reason appear to have little interest in moving again. Whatever his decision, Snow has to prove he can make smart, tough moves for his team with his head, and not let his heart get in the way.”
I know you’re not “taking a side” on the issue really, but rather provoking thought and conversation, but the sentiment of the Jan. 4 post was different than the sentiment of this one, and I think you hit the nail closer to the head last time.
CB, a question: Wasn’t our current Director of Amateur Scouting (and Assistant GM), high up in the Isles’ European scouting hierarchy when the Isles took those two Russians in ‘03?
Guerin is a good dude, he is a great guy to have on your team. Weight is the same. What is more important though? Having those guys for maybe 2 more seasons or having the potential to draft a player that will be around long term?
Ooooh! ok, thank you so much Ted appreciate it, for explaining the way it works.
I kinda feel like it’s a tough call, I just hope they know what they’re gonna do and make good choices, so that next year we’ll see a rise, I mean we all know at some point this mess we’re in will clear up and things will start to improve.
Guerin and Weight are good guys/players I agree but we have to move foward with our “youth” movement. These guys are good role models for the kids but how much do they really have left in the tank? Once Nielson comes back and gets worked back in the line up he has to be given the playing time to improve his game. He showed some good speed and hands before he went down and I think he could be a good player. I hate to break the news but this season is about growing/learning what we got. Keeping Weight/Guerin (if he lets us trade him) is counter productive to what we are supposedly doing here. If we can’t get diddily for them then keep them, but if we can dump ‘em!
One thing about that year where we had four picks: look at the rest of the draft that year. It’s awful. It’s amazing just how unproductive that entire first round became. So it’s not like we should be kicking ourselves for not drafting well that year. Nobody is looking back on that one with any degree of satisfaction.
what happened to Jack Hillen anyway…im sick of Thomas Pock
I know this is a simple question with a complicated answer but; why not bring up a guy like Mclean (C) to see where the organization stands at the position. This is a good opportunity while Weight is in the boot.
Guerin has more value to the team than he does in future draft picks. Re-signing Weight would cause a jam at “C” even if they don’t get Tavares. Guerin isn’t really holding any RW’s out of the picture.
Is there any timetable for Nielsen yet?… oh.. I forgot… you’re in the doghouse.
61 UIF on Jan 7th, 2009 13:03:44 said:
I agreed with CB more on Jan. 4 when he wrote:
“Guerin and Weight have beautiful young families, are sincerely committed to the Islanders and for good reason appear to have little interest in moving again. Whatever his decision, Snow has to prove he can make smart, tough moves for his team with his head, and not let his heart get in the way.”
I know you’re not “taking a side” on the issue really, but rather provoking thought and conversation, but the sentiment of the Jan. 4 post was different than the sentiment of this one, and I think you hit the nail closer to the head last time.
UIF I believe that was more about Guerins BF rather than Guerin himself. The point here is that Guerin has a NMC so it doesnt even matter where Garths heart is in regard to him. He isnt going anywhere (I agree with CB that if Boston begged for him he might do it, but thats it)
Give me a break. Get rid of these guys. I like Weight, but what’s the point of having them? Guerin is an awful captain, and at this point, an awful player.
Are there any fans left that aren’t drinking the punch?
well burke made his first trade as a leaf. instead of getting the one ppl expected(parros) it was brad may. it was actually a good trade though. my bet is that he will trade kubina and/or kaberle for late first rounders and 2nd rounders next year since they are not rentals. and they have so many dmen that it is possible
I think both should stay and be renewed for another year. Their presence would help develop players like KO, Frans, Bailey, etc. and how many more 2nd rounders do we need?
Trading those guys for prospects with potential would be another story, perhaps, but I’m tired of the infatuation with draft picks over proven players. Especially middling-to-late second rounders (which is what we’re talking about).
This team needs live bodies, too.
Everyone’s throwing in their 2 cents, here’s mine. Weight and Guerin will probably not fetch more than a 2nd Rounder each. They’re way more valuable as Islanders for several reasons.
1. They put up points
2. They provide a vet presence on and off the ice
3. They bring a level of respectability to the club. By staying, resigning, whatever, they show other players around the league that Long Island is not only the Marriott and the wasteland around it. There is a reason to stay. While this may appeal to the elder statesmen of the league, it shows that it’s a good place to live.
Okay, I have a question for all you armchair GMs who want Weight and Guerin gone for the “good of the rebuild”. Lets say we deal Weight for a 2nd rounder, we deal Comrie and Witt and all the Guys you want to swap for picks. Then the draft lotto happens and we end up with the 2nd or 3rd pick? That pretty much assures that Tavares is going somewhere else. So what happens next season? We are left with (based on NHL level contracts through next season)…
Forwards - Bailey, Nielson, Okposo, Comeau, Park, Hunter, Bergenheim, and Tambellini
Defense - Striet, Campoli, Gervais, Meyer and Martinek.
8 forwards under contract, which means we have to a) plug in 7 forwards from Bridgeport, who probably won’t all be ready to make the jump, b) sign some marginal forwards with NHL experience to fill the gaps, or c) pray that LI suddenly becomes a hot spot for big time free agents. Either way, we are pretty much SOL. If we field a team of all kids, we will get DESTROYED every game and ruin their development. If we sign marginal guys, what was the point of getting rid of Guerin and Weight, so that we can maybe get lucky and draft a kid who may, someday, 4 years from now, turn into a legit NHLer? As for “c”, never gonna happen.
The point is a rebuild will not be successful if we just through all of our kids to the wolves. I agree that our kids are our future, but you need to remember what happened to guys like Eric Fichaud when they were forced to do too much too fast. Once you ruin a 19 or 20 year old’s confidence, it is hard to bring them back. Tamby may be our best example of that right now. Do we really want to sabotage the development of the kids we already have to get another “maybe” pick? I think that is just silly. All we need is for 4 or 5 of our kids to be really going within the next year or so to start attracting talent. We don’t need to have a 21 man roster of all hand picked players, that would never work.
Rick from LI, YOUR armchair GM expertise consists of expecting an NHL team to have all of their centers be teenagers. And you think thats fine.
Both these vets have been everything you could have expected and more. While Isles are rebuilding, they still need to put a credible team on the ice. That and the kids need vets to teach them. Give both these guys extensions right now and let them retire as Isles.
i think the notion that doug weight is the new son of Long Island is a joke. Do you know why he’s on our team? Its because he stunk last year and had no other offers. Now I dont doubt that he likes being here, and he’s obviously a great guy and a class act (as most NHL guys are) but cmon people. He was sop desperate for a job that he didnt ask for a no trade clause, he just wanted to get paid. And he got paid well.
If he loves the Isles so much, even he knows that he needs to be moved. We wont compete in this league again till hes 45 years old, so get what you can for him. Its sad but its a business. Plus if you keep him around and he wins a few games for us and costs us a shot at tavares then youve just compounded the problem.
I dont get how this is an issue…
“What do the Islanders need more right now: a fourth needle in the haystack of the second round, or two former great, now very good players and superlative role models in Guerin and Weight who are fiercely loyal to Scott Gordon?”
We need these guys to show our new and younger players what it means to “get it”. They are class acts who’s actions have great merit on and off the ice.
I look forward to our younger core acting like them for years to come.
As much as I would like to keep Bergenheim around, I feel at this moment he is our most trade-able asset. He clearly has some tremendous potential, he’s also been in the doghouse with Gordon because of his penalties. HE is the type of player we could actually get some decent return on.
And to the people who insist that Weight cannot keep up his pace for 1 or 2 more years: Unless you are Weight’s personal doctor, or you can see the future, you have NO IDEA. Chris Chelios is 45. If he were dead weight, the wings would not have kept him. Not saying that Weight can play till he’s 45…but last year it looked like he might be done, this year it looks like he has more in the tank. You cannot know for certain until it happens, but there is no reason to assume that because he turns 38, Weight will suddenly become unable to play hockey. That is absurd. He’s playing well now, and he’s one of a small handful of players who want to be on the Island, and our team needs veteran leadership. Needs, not wants. you cannot have a team with no veterans.
Hello, All of you people who do not want to trade Doug Weight need to have your head examined. If he played the first half of this season like he did all of last season we couldn’t get a pile of ice shavings for him. He had a resurgence this year because he gets unlimited quality minutes. Most of his points are on the powerplay. Yes he is still a talented playmaker and I was extremely impressed with his cameo on the Oilers telecast. However, we are a bottom feeder and this is how you rebuild. We should thank the hockey gods that Weight had a great first half and we could get some serious value for him. Forget the second round pick…there will certainly be a team in the league that needs a PP specialist/veteran to lead them to the potential promised land. Call me crazy but I think there may be a competition to get his services which would mean a young quality NHL’er 2nd or third liner or a top prospect in the AHL who is producing.
And a 2nd or third line player or 5 type D-Man on another team is instantly one of our best players. Find the player who fits Gordon’s system and continue to rebuild. Sheeesh.
No Chris, I said it is stupid to have a bunch of teenagers play center for us. I think we should keep Weight for that very reason. It’s not like we are going to find a bunch of really talented and experienced centers dying to sign here as UFAs.
We do not need Weight we need young players. Weight is a good old player not what we need.
Bergy stays Weight go’s.
Bergy is what we need more of on this team.
Shardz I don’t understand how trading our promising young player(Bergenheim) for another teams young player/prospect draft pick makes any sense? If we trade Bergy we will all regret it for a while, I hope to God Garth doesn’t do it!
Keep Weight and get rid of Bergenheim? Milbury is that you?
OK, so the alternative is we keep the same exact team, get nothing for anyone, and keep complaining ourselves in circles. Weight is a NICE player, but not irreplaceable by any stretch. We’re not talking about Trottier here…we’re not even talking about Weight in his prime. If we’re set on keeping Park, there is a nice veteran presence for the kids. Ditto Hunter. Ditto Streit. Ditto Hilbert (from an effort standpoint). Ditto Guerin since we can’t move him anyway with the NMC. How many “mentors” do we need here? There’ll hardly be room left for anyone for them to teach!
shardz, no offense, you have no idea. if you think weight can keep it up then thats nuts. its not even that, it is the fact that he may want to retire. what do you think is more likely, him keeping his pace for 1-2 years or not? chris chelios is not even playing that well and was a seventh defensman at one point
Keep Weight and Guerin and Bergy. Lose Comrie. Bailey will take his place next year. I’m not so worried about the number of picks we have next year, seeing as we already have bunches and a decent stock already. I’d rather have two committed vets in our pocket than try to compete with other teams for UFA who might not be as enthusiastic. They’ll do nicely another year or two here.
Dumb question..the difference between a no move and no trade is? And how is it calculated?
If you look at who they have signed for next year your core is:
Comeau(RFA)-Bailey-Okposo
Tambellini-Nielsen-Hunter
Bergenhiem-Smith(RFA)-Park
Sim-Thompson(RFA)-Jackman
So if we are looking forward, let’s hope they can sell Sim/Tambellini for the same bag of pucks ANA got for May, sign Comeau/Smith/Thompson to one year deals, and PLEASE KEEP Guerin and Weight around so this team has some legitimacy.
First Base Andy is a UFA this year… Please let Andy get a fresh start somewhere else. They should need some room for a guy like Figren, Joensuu or Iggulden.
They just can’t give Comrie a THIRD chance and sign Weight as well.
Rich - I don’t think anybody here necessarily doesn’t want to trade Weight. I don’t want to trade Weight for the sake of having a firesale. If nobody offers more than a 3rd round pick I think it would be pretty silly to trade a team leader and class guy for such a pitiful return, but if they offer a 1st rounder or a 2nd rounder + a prospect I’ll pack his bags.
NOT trading Weight would be completely nuts. I appreciate the fact that he wants to stay here. If that’s the case he surely would understand the needs of this team and resign next season when we have more talent here.
He would also understand that this late in his career he ain’t gonna get top line minutes next season. Bailey, Okpsoso, Bergenheim, Comeau and Tambellini need some games to learn how to fly on their own. That time is best at the end of the season.
Weight wants to resign for a few more years after july 1st then that’s cool with me. The team comes first. What are they gonna do? Have Weight sit the final twenty or so games after to the deadline so we can have a look at the kids?
That’s a waste of his time as well as time needed to evaluate some prospects. There is plenty of room for Weight next season and it’s great that he likes playing here. That shouldn’t come at the expense of the franchise though.
If a move has to be made there are plenty of NHL franchises we could deal him to that are close by. Provided the return is right. This way he doesn’t have to uproot his family.
i think if we are ever tied and go into a shootout we should use DP, joey mac, and Witt as our three shooters. is there a rule that you cant?? we do not need any extra points. i also suggest putting sutton and witt up front on the PP for the remainder of this year…
i like Bill Guerin, but I hope he wants to try to win a cup and lets us trade him…we need to get as many draft picks as we possibly can…we dont need mentors…we need young players. all of you saying the draft is a crap shoot are completely right. that is why the more picks you get the better chance a few of them pan out…
thank you weight and guerin (and witt) - you are good men. i wish you well in your new homes. you might be sad for a day, but when you think about it, you will be like “thank God I got voted off of the Island.” You dont have much time left. Go have some fun and win some games. We need to lose….
I would love to keep both. They need to be here for several reasons. One for leadership and teach these kids how to act like NHL players on and off the ice.
Two, what does it say to future UFA’s when we trade them all away for picks? No way anyone else will sign here.
I’ve always felt you need a balance of both vet players and youth, I tend to agree with keeping Weight and Guerin, and maybe trade others, like comrie, although he’s shown improvments, but I think his age you still have a shot at getting something back, verses a weight or guerin, not to say that weight or Guerin aren’t worth anything, because they are certainly, but I think at this stage things they’re worth more to this team then any other, I agree with letting them ride out there last years as an Islander, but that’s me.
And also thank you Matt, after re-reading thru all this I saw that you had answered my question as well as Ted, didn’t see it the first time..thank you!
future FAs will come for money and will be smart enough to get no trade clauses in their contract. The fact that Weight didnt get one (and only got a one year deal) shows how desperate he was to find a place to play and how he had ZERO other options….
Not sure if anyone has noticed but people already dont sign here…
UFA’s get traded all the time it is part of the buisness. I think everyone is reaching a bit here. We have other mentors for the kids. If we can get at least a second/prospect it would go against our “youth movement” to keep him. UFA’s are not not going to come here if we trade Weight, there are plenty of other reasons for them not to come here!LOL!
Dmarie - I agree…when you’re ready to compete and make a push, you need a balance of vets and kids. We’re nowhere near that. We’re half a year into what is supposed to be a “youth movement rebuild” — you get a whole bunch of youth, and some of them you keep, and some, after evaluation, you do not. But I don’t think we’ll never get to that point if we get attached to every vet who puts up a few points and says he likes LI. We will not be compteting for anything next year, so I don’t see why keeping Weight is essential at all. I agree with a previous poster: it’s an absolute gift that Weight has played the way he has and has increased his value to us on the trade market. We have to take advantage of that if the offers are there.
I think I’ve reached my post limit…so hope that last one was a good one!
Rick:
I agree with your take on Weight and Guerin 100%.
Even with your well thought out explanation of why the Islanders should keep them… some of your points were completely mis-interpreted by others.
The Islanders will be in a worse position as far as their “building from within plan” if they don’t have a couple of professionals like Weight and Guerin around to show the “kids” the way.
DOC
I do think that trading some assets will help with that plan:
Witt and Comrie for example.
DOC
Trade everyone you can get value for. The goal should be to end up with three first round picks (so adding two), wheter they come in return for players or we take the return and that gives the ammo to move up lets get it done.
Also, just trade Martinek for anything. I just want to be done with Martinek this year.
They both realize that there will most likely not be another chance to play together if they separate. It’s not that they want to be Islanders, they want to be together no matter where they are.
What would Lou L. do???
Trade Guerin for two players and a pick.
Thanks doc. I am glad one person took the time to read what I wrote instead just trying to jump down my throat. The point I really think everyone is missing is that Guerin’s and Weight’s presence, on a team that is going to stink again next season anyway, for one more year, does more good than trading them for late draft pics, which may never make it to the NHL and would be 3-5 years away from that anyway. Plus, the entire, “We have other mentors” argument is crap. How is Richard Park or Trent Hunter better suited to talk to Bailey or Okposo about being a top line center or forward, playing deep into the playoffs and winning a Cup, than Weight or Guerin? Short answer, they aren’t. In order to be a mentor, you have to have experienced the highest and lowest moments in the sport. These guys have both done that. They are the mentors you want to have. No offense to the other vets on this team, but no one else brings the resume these two guys do. They are both respected vets, former allstars and cup winners. If you were learning how to do brain surgery who would you want to learn from? I doctor who is one of the best in his field, has won awards for his practice and has garnered nothing but respect from his piers, or the guy who has been operating for a few years with mixed success and has been lucky enough to not kill anyone yet? Think about it. Your next generation of Islanders is only going to be as good as the the current generation sets them up to be.