PB DECENT PROPOSAL: Guerin to the Rangers
Larry Brooks recommends it. Here’s our offer.
UPDATED Saturday morning: The conversation continues in Comments in a few places with my reaction to your reaction. We’ll keep this going until the afternoon, when Mark Streit sends a postcard…CB
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Larry Brooks of the Post wrote Friday of how good Bill Guerin would look to the right of Scott Gomez. Larry points out that the Islanders’ captain will not drop his no-move clause if it means leaving the area (he’s probably right, although I would not rule out Boston). While the captain has done everything he can for the Islanders, Guerin is not so emotionally linked to the franchise that a trade to the rival Rangers would be heresy.
So here’s our proposal for a deal close to the March 4 deadline:
Rangers receive:
- Bill Guerin and his pro-rated $4.5 million
Islanders receive:
- Petr Prucha and his pro-rated $1.6 million
- A 2009 third round pick that becomes a second round pick if the Rangers advance to the Eastern Conference Final
My take: Guerin could give the Blueshirts the kick they need, but I’m fairly confident that’s as much as the Rangers would offer. Highly doubtful the Islanders are getting a conditional first round pick from any team for Guerin. The Rangers have some leverage knowing Guerin determines his fate with the no-move.
Prucha has energy, hands and at age 26 would be a willing student under Scott Gordon. Give him a try and then decide if you want to re-sign him as a restricted free agent in the summer. If Prucha doesn’t pass the test, you can add all this saved salary to the Komisarek Pool. The third (maybe second) round draft pick is more than the Islanders will get for Guerin when he bolts in the summer.
If I’m Garth Snow, I make the trade. Glen Sather, too.
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134 Responses to “PB DECENT PROPOSAL: Guerin to the Rangers
Larry Brooks recommends it. Here’s our offer.”
Please Wait
CB- When I first saw the title of this thread I thought you and Brooks were at a modeling club and started sniffing glue … but after reading your piece there … I gotta say … I can’t argue with your reasoning … I don’t think it will happen … but if the players were the same … and the two teams were different … I think it would be a deal worth both teams consumating.
Chris,
Rangers fans would likely pack his things for him. But do the Islanders really need another player who has proved he cannot perform up to expectations?
Sure, he could turn it around - but is it worth it? I would rather give them Guerin and a for Nigel Dawes straight up.
Take out the “and a” from my comment and it makes sense. I originally had a pick in there.
Wouldn’t that trade put the Rangers over the cap? Would we have to take some dead money player back? I don’t see anyone they’d be willing to throw in to make this work cap-wise…
Their numbers could be a bit off, but nhlnumbers.com is usually pretty close.
idk i wouldnt want to help the rags at all. i think in the end i would do it. maybe if it was a definite second but i would want to know what the bruins are doing. both teams could use him.
i guess they would have to throw in something else i guess if the they are below the cap. maybe voros.or sumthing
My focus wouldn’t even be the Prucha part of the deal … that only gives the Isles a bargaining chip … it’s the 3rd rounder with a 2nd round potential that is the center piece of the deal IMO.
Personally … I’d like to see Guerin stick around for another year or two … we don’t have to many RW prospects ready for prime time … even if we’d like to think that we do.
no, no, no, no…even though I would take Prucha (if he came by way of some other team), I do not now, nor do I ever make a trade with the NYR that might help them, even if I get some marginal benefit from the deal…Bill Torrey wouldn’t do this deal under any circumstances, and I’m with the Architect
just looked at the numbers, i guess we cant do it unless they make another trade or if it gets bigger. they only have 200,000 so we would have to get a lot. idk i guess we will have to wait till march 4th
I should have clarified that, for cap reasons, the trade would have to be made closer to the deadline. Doubt you’re getting Dawes in the deal…CB
CB,
You really don’t think the Isles could get a first for Guerin? As of now, the Isles are pretty much the only team out of the picture for good. Weight brought in a late first rounder. I don’t see why Isles couldn’t do the same from a playoff team in need of another solid scorer. When the biggest trade so far this year has been Boucher for Sydor, I think Isles could fetch something solid as of now.
A guy can dream though CB.
It would be even better if Dawes wasn’t a left wing considering we have a bunch of forwards on the left side.
lil bit off topic here but I think the isles should target Paul Mara as a free agent july 1
This is the interesting part of the piece, not the trade suggestion. Why assume he is “bolting” this summer? And if that’s a sure thing, why would he care where he played the last couple of months this season?
The third (maybe second) round draft pick is more than the Islanders will get for Guerin when he bolts in the summer.
I also was intrigued by the bolt in the summer comment. What do you know that we don’t?
Assuming Guerin is gone as well as some other vets, who becomes the captain?
trading with the rangers is against the law. not to mention a trade that includes us getting more if the rangers do well. I DO NOT WANT THEM TO DO WELL.
if the trade helps the rangers, than i cant say i’m for it.. lets be real here.
I used to not want them to do well… and I still kind of don’t… but I frankly don’t give a $&!+ about them, especially if it would benefit us. As long as they don’t win the cup :).
I would do it. Prucha seems to be getting SOME of his game back the past two weeks.
i say we trade guerin (4.5m) to rangers for prucha (1.6), kalinin (2.1) rissmiller (1 mill) and their first round pick. help the rangers with cap relief by taking away the awful kalinin and rismiller who they dont play. that will free them up to make another trade for a better defenseman and get the power winger in guerin.
No Thanks Chris. No help for the Rag$ under any circumstances.
Pat
NO WAY CB! YOUR PROPOSAL IS REJECTED!
You have consistently written of the Isles need to get bigger, yet you target Prucha, who while talented hasn’t done much and gets scratched. Not too mention he is listed at 5′10 161, so not moving at all in the direction the Isles need.
When I read Brooks piece I thought it is a possible solution for the Isles to gain assets and Guerin not to be so far removed from his family. I’d say Pitt, Phi, NJ are also possibilities.
I looked at the Rangers organizational depth and am less then impressed with their prospects.
If we would trade with the Rangers, then I’d say Orr or Dubinsky. I know Orr is a UFA this summer but he is a former Gordon player so he should be easy to resign and the isles need the size and toughness.
Prucha they can keep.
and of course a the draft picks the way you laid it out.
I would drive Bill Guerin to the Garden for each game if the Isles make that trade. Prucha might flourish in the Isles system. I don’t get how he lacks ice time there.
In reading some of your comments, most Rangers fans I have talked to still love Prucha. They blame the coach for not giving him ice time. Every time I see him play he is all over the place. I don’t get why the Isles wouldnt want him.
The Isles home game 2/21 against the Devils is Town of Hempstead night. This must be a sellout and we must get the message across.
I dunno about prucha. Id much rather have anotehr one of there young players without getting a drfat pick back
No way Chris, I could never make a deal that helps the Rags, but I guess that’s why I’m not an NHL GM!
Is there any chance in hell that the Isles could trade a package of let’s say Guerin, Weight, Tambellini and like a 3rd Rounder and pry Wheeler from the B’s?
It may seem alot to give up but we give Guerin and Weight a chance to win a Cup together and we unload the inconsistant Tambellini and receive a good solid young winger who is BIG and can SCORE.
Bruins get two veterans that can help them in the playoffs, a young player back that they could really develop and a 3rd Rounder for their troubles.
I’m just trying to think of a way we can get the best of a team trying to win a Cup now while the gettin’s good.
Not bad… as long as you could sign Prucha.
I would rather the second round pick unconditionally.
Then we can send Weight to Edmonton for their second.
And Witt to Buffalo for Max and a third rounder.
I would do it. Who cares about the rangers worry about the islanders. Any deal that makes us better is a deal I would do.
jimmy i hope the witt part is a joke. the more i think about it the more i say no. and dmen i do not think the bruins would do that at all. i would love it if it happened but i dont think so. i think our most tradeable asset is witt. the big bad bruins could use more defensive help past chara so they may look to toronto and us to deliver. we can package guerin there and get something nice. somewhere else witt can go is edmonton. rob schremp could be a return. or maybe some draft picks. someone once posted that we should trade weight to the wild for the boogeyman and a second, even with weights injury, i think it is still possible. then we can cross out heavyweight on next years to-do list. just naming possible trades here.
i have always liked prucha and could never understand why renney doesn’t him more. i would probably make this deal. maybe we could get the bruins and rags to get in a bidding war over him. they both could use him. i would rather deal with the b’s for obvious reasons and guerin would probably go back there but this isn’t a bad deal for the isles.
guerin has stunk up the place..we celebrate his past success…hit the road you robot you have no moves you got no game get lost!!!!
hey cb you mentioned the komisaurus pool. do you think we can get him. if we cant then i wouldnt mind getting hal gill. dont worry this will be my last post for this article. any thoughts?
Thumbs up! i think prucha could score 20+ here..heck i would trade with anyone to improve the isles. How about Hunter? What would he be worth?
If helping the Rangers means helping the Islanders then I’m all for it. That trade proposal I would make in a heartbeat.
No way can they trade with the rangers. God forbid somehow Guerin gets hot, Lunquivst stands on his head and the rangers win a cup, the isles might as well load the trucks and get on the highway to KC
Buffalo is hurting on D right now.
And there looking to trade Max… so I thought it was a match.
I like Witt, but not sure what is wrong with him this year.
I think what people need to remember
is… we need to put a team on the ice next year. We need to hit the Minimum Cap.
If we lose Guerin, Weight, Silly, Comrie… that’s about 16 mllion to make up.
Plus we probably are under the cap by about 8 million.
We could go on a spending spree and spend Mr. Wang’s money.
Let’s say we have 20 million…
Who do you want???????
komisarek and higgins for starters
CB,
I like Prucha…he would help the Islanders…good trade proposal…let’s get Snowy on the phone…
CB
So, for basically a 3rd round pick, we have to suffer through watching guerin lead to rangers to playoff success? You know, the isles have plenty of 2nd and 3rd round picks that one more is NOT worth the torture of helping NYR. I would rather get a 4th round pick from another team than a 3rd from NYR. We have had to deal with enough crap as islander fans, helping the rangers win a cup? We deserve that too?
Shoe, who cares who we help. We need to make us better in the future. Guerin wont help the Rangers much.
316
And a 3rd rounder is going to help our future? More than the 72 other 2nd and 3rd round picks they have stockpiled the past 3 years? Unless the NYR give up something top shelf, keep shopping.
This Idea will make you go Hmmm…
But I would like for Isles to hunt for big defenceman for starters. Prucha is a hard working hockey player, but can he score consistently? Not in my book of opinions. I see him as a small version of Jackman.
And for Jimmy Mac: good point. I would also add a second question: Who wants us?
personally id do it .. the rangers arent going anywhere , over rated and not built for the playoffs, guerins been great but prucha could help in the future and a pick is always good , granted we use it well .. it would be weird trading with the rangers but i could see this deal helping us.. granted there is probably ZERO chance it happens … lets go isles
Prucha could help us. Guerin is either going to Boston, NYR or maybe no where if he doesn’t waive his NTC. So, if he is willing to waive his clause, and you can get a 3rd round pick for him and a guy who has scored 30 goals in a season (68 games), then I don’t care if the Rangers win an extra 2 games. You would be insane not to do it.
Why not do it? So you can resign Guerin for 4 million dollars and he can score 22 goals and miss the net 100 times and never really stand up for anyone on the ice anymore? I mean he is only the captain.
I’d use the Devils to drive the price up on the Rangers and Bruins. What about Fritchie too I think he has youth and potential on his side. Rangers are buried up against the cap. I’d take on some of their garbage to up the deal to a 1st rounder. Rissmiller, Voros, fritch, Prucha, Kalinin any combo of them to get their first. They need to clear space fast or they be the Lightning and Senators in two years.
CB: So who are we going to send to Omsk in exchange for Jagr so that Prucha will produce again?
Interesting how some Islanders fans are only worried about the trade helping the Rangers and not looking at it the other way.
You’re concerned about Billy leading the Rangers to the Cup? Maybe Rangers fans, most who seem to love Prucha, would be worried about him being a contributor for the Islanders for years to come.
The way I see it, this might be the only way to get some value for a player who’s likely not coming back. Pretty good value, actually.
Keep in mind, Guerin holds all the cards…CB
Done and doner. I’ve argued the value of Petr Prucha with my brother (a big Rangers fan) and others in recent weeks. Smallish? Yes. But the guy scored 52 goals in his first two seasons and then landed in Renney’s doghouse. He has not had a fair shake since.
Sending either Bill Guerin or, say, Brendan Witt the other way is intriguing becuase it fills a need for the Rangers, but could also net a return for the Isles while shipping a declining asset (and yes, Guerin is declining and/or Witt does not fit in Gordon’s system– just ask him). But both make significant money so you will need to take salary in return, hence Prucha and his $1.6M salary.
Throw in the conditional pick and to me this is a no-brainer. Re-sign Guerin in the summer if you’re so in love with him. Great guy and great leader, but the best thing he could do for this team in early March is fetch a decent return.
Oh, and CB, if you’re going to start trade rumors, at least give us readers an idea of how realistic it is! Call it the Botta Scale, where a (c1) is not very realistic, but a (c5) means it’s basically a done deal!
Regarding the mention of Brendan Witt as part of a package to the Rag$, don’t you think that a team like Pittsburgh is in dire need of a player like Witt? That’s who I’d contact first if I were Snow.
I see your logic… but I just cant condone trading with the Rangers. Irrational, maybe- but its just how I feel.
MRLBEM: Yes and no. I mentioned Witt only as an example of a player who, like Guerin, the Rangers could use. From a salary standpoint, there is no way the Rangers could accomodate both Guerin and Witt without blowing up the roster, which they won’t do.
Pittsburgh, I am not so sure (they have Brooks Orpik, who essentially fills the same role). But I think there will be demand out there for Brendan Witt, for sure.
CB can you give us an article on the percentages of islanders being traded. I would love to know who you think we will most likely trade.
Martinek,
Witt
guerin
weight
comrie
etc
I am not liking this proposal at all. Nope, not one bit.
With that defense, the Rangers aren’t winning the Cup with or without Guerin.
Witt is the one who could really help the Rangers, but they would have to make some serious cap moves to fit him in, and I doubt they have the flexibility. Ditto Pittsburgh, which could use Guerin very badly (they are Team Helicopter; i.e. no wings).
I would love to get Jordan Staal from Pens (he’s a waste as their third center and could blossom on the Isle). It’s that type of player (talented but miscast) that snow should be targeting in his dealings. Isles already have 3 (likely top half) second-rounders (their own, TOR and NAS); look for guys who are buried in the systems of teams like Wings and Sharks (e.g. Kyle Quincey, a waiver pickup by Kings from Wings; he was surplus in DET but doing nicely in LA; I assume LA had first dibs on him, because if Snow had a chance to get him and didn’t, he goofed).
I do hope that as Isles look to trade some vets, they do it with class — go to the guys involved, see if they want to stay (or re-sign, try to deal them to a place they’d like to go. This may not be possible, but one thing the Isles have to do is re-build the reputation they had in the good old days as a “class” organization. That rep, like a lot of things, died under previous regimes.
Just garbage - no trade involving our captain going to the Rangers - is acceptable - blasphemy.
Its tempting, but its the Rangers. Assuming there are other options, I’d say no. Its the Rangers!
Anyone who doesn’t want to make this trade because it’s the Rangers really needs to re-evaluate their priorities for the success of this team.
I don’t want our team to succeed anymore this year. I NEVER want to see the Rag$ succeed…..ever.
Trade Guerin to NJD….if you have to trade him locally.
Better yet - I say just keep him. While I love to see the kids play, I deserve to have at least ONE NHL player on the roster for the rest of the year. Chris is right, Guerin holds the cards - and if he wants to stay - that is ok by me.
JUST SAY NO TO THE RAG$
Right on isles316. Instead of worrying about how it helps the Rangers you should be focused on how it will help the Islanders.
I don’t care about helping the Rangers if we can steal from them. However, the 2nd rounder must be definite and not conditional, perhaps if they win the cup it turns into their first rounder. Still NO MORE SMALL GUYS! This is already a very small team with not that much size in the organization.
I actually like Prucha. As Cb stated, he brings energy to a team that lacks it. The only thing would try and get is a guaranteed 2nd round pick.
I love Billy (he even gave my son his stick at a game here in Toronto last year), but if Snow has a sense he is going then trade him. If he wants to stay, he is a great leader for these young kids.
Who knew Guerin was so revered in some circles?
I’ll check back on this subject when the Islanders lose him for nothing…CB
Be Still My Heart! I’d take Prucha. He has untapped potential.
Chris,Assuming this does not happen, what can we expect from the Bruins for Guerin.
I think he is a much better fit for Boston and could be their Butch Goring.
Besides he’s played there before and would be an easy fit into their line-up now that Sturm is out for the season…SW
It’s a good deal CB, If the Rags bit on this one it should be done. Can we throw in the Islanders medical/training staff too?
Pruca-Bailey/Frans-Okposo
Move Tamby to RW for the rest of the season, as his last chance to produce or be gone
This team also needs some scoring wingers who can shoot left.
Might as well move Guerin to Jersey. Seems like they wanna go vintage with Rolston, Holik, Shanny. maybe we could grab Bergfors or Vrana and a pick.
CB:
Basically what you’re saying is… Guerin has NO intention of returning to be the captain next year…
DOC
I think what he’s saying is the Isles have no intention of re-signing Guerin next year.
can someone explain to me why a player with a no trade clause would “bolt” if he doesnt want to leave the area? this whole time i was thinking guerin wanted to play at least one more season for the isles. cb, i think alot of us are confused.
It’s so hard to condone anything that helps the Rags. However, if this were the best deal we could get, and Guerin approved it, I’d have to pull the trigger if I were in a position to do so.
You seem to allude that Guerin doesn’t want to come back…or maybe I am just reading that into it. Obviously if he doesn’t want to finish his career with the Islanders, than yes, they need to work a trade! I think Guerin would fit better in Boston as far as actually being a missing piece for a Cup contender…and he might also agree to go there. Maybe Gordon knows of a a sure thing in Boston’s farm system too.Having said that, I don’t particularly like going out and having to sign a *new* *leader* this Summer…seems convoluted and would prefer Guerin to stay and slowly pass the baton off to whomever. None of the current *Kids* have the experience or EDGE to be slid into a team leader position…yet, imo. In any case, it would have to be a decent draft pick along with Prucha to make *The* Ranger trade acceptable.
Go Isles!
I don’t think the Isles should worry about naming a new captain. Not that Guerin has been a bad captain, but I look at Iginla, Shane Doan, Chara, Brind’Amour,Dustin Brown etc…
Those guys bring it every night and play with an intensity that Guerin does not play with. The Islanders have not had that player in their lineup since Peca got hurt in the Toronto series.
The Islanders have not had a true leader since that series in my opinion and I believe that hurt them during seasons where they made the playoffs.
Honestly, until someone steps up and fills that role, you don’t need to name a captain. You can alternate it or just have 3 alternates. I wish we could get Shane Doan but that’s impossible.
Edit above: They shouldn’t worry about keeping Guerin only to not lose their captain and their leader.
Of course the isles should look out for themselves and not worry about the rangers. However, the point here is that this deal is not a huge help to the future of the isles. There is a reason prucha can’t stay in the NYR lineup and a 3rd round pick, better than nothing, but not a tremendous value.
One other thing, Guerin has said he wants to play next year, the isles will need players, weight seems a longshot to comeback with his injury issues, well, if you trade him, you can likely forget resigning him…..
If getting a Komisarek, Higgins,( Boumeister or???) is something that is in the cards than, yes, that changes everything. You get a very good if not great player and one that fans could instantly get on board with. Great PR too. Whether Guerin stays or goes it’s still going to be hard to sign a talented, tough, veteran leader that is going to come in and *bring it* each and every night and every scenario for a team that very well could be losing A LOT of games well into next season. Maybe not, but…..
Who am I? I’m 26 years old, between 5′10″ and 6″. I weight between 161 and 175. I have scored 3 goals and 3 assists this season. I am speedy, a good AHL scorer, but inconsistent in the NHL and often am scratched and/or in the coaches dog house. I am not a physical player?
Who am I? Petr Prucha.
‘Round 2: I am 24 years old, I have scored 2 goals and 4 assists this season. I am speedy, good AHL scorer but inconsistent in the NHL. In the past I have been scratched and/or in the coaches dog house. I am working on being more physical.
Who am I? I am Jeff Tambelleni. I am baffled in that so many posters on this board dislike/hate Jeff Tambelleni but now all of a sudden think Prucha is a good idea. Pretty darn similar, except most things go in favor of Tambelleni.
No Prucha. Time to get bigger. You can get rid of one of your bigger players for one of the smaller guys in the NHL when you already have the smallest team.
If Guerin really likes LI I could see him staying one more year but after resigning after he was traded.
Weight, Guerin, Sim, Hilbert, Pock, Katic, Kohn, Martinek, Meyer, Pock, Witt, Geravis all need to go.
What’s the difference between Prucha and Tamby? One has a 30-goal season in the NHL, the other has a 30-goal season in the AHL.
Isles do need to determine what Guerin wants for 09-10. If he wants to be somewhere else, they should see if/where he’ll agree to be traded. If he wants to stay, do it ASAP to provide some stability.
There is a crying need for both size and speed. The Isles have little of the former and less of the latter. Garth Snow has to be aware of this after the Anaheim game on Wednesday, where the size differential was too noticeable to be missed.
I’d do the deal. I don’t see the Isles resigning Guerin in the post-season so they have to grab whatever they can get for him. Whether it’s only a 3rd rounder and/or a decent prospect, I’m all for doing it.
If guerin isn’t going to resign why is his no movement so important to him, I realize his family is stil here but if he is going to pick up and move them anyway in teh summer why would he care where he goes now
Here’s why you dont do this trade… the rangers are one of 6 potential cup winners coming out of the atlantic. even the Remote Possibility of guerin lifting the cup over his head in a Rags uniform makes me wanna hurl. It would be the final blow to the Isles.
hence the reason there has never been a trade of magnitude between the two.
CB I like Prucha but if Renney stays you can acquire him in the offseason.
I cant believe you would suggest it
Prucha reminds me of oleg Kavasha, flashes of brillance but for the most part frustrating to watch
Prucha is worth a shot. He’s young and quite possibly may just need the proverbial ‘change of scenery’. If he can revert back to his play from his first 2 years in the league, it would be a coup for the Isles. He isn’t going to command a big contract, and who knows, Guerin could always resign with the Isles in the off season.
CB, you nailed it with ‘Guerin is not so emotionally linked to the franchise that a trade to the rival Rangers would be heresy.’
Pilon, Chicken Parm & Flats to the Rags? THAT was heresy.
Trade the captain? hmmmmm I dont recall in recent history a team trading the cap…………. oh wait a minute we have done it before I dont recall if Linden was the C at the timne but I know McCabe was. This may be another sign of inept mngt if we continue to choose a leader albeit a 2 year signing, and trade him away.
Just my thoughts here……..
Happy belated B day Mr Bossy!! Jan 22 1957
I’ll take that trade in a heartbeat!!
CB, what are your general feelings to posts like this. Personally, and I believe most of your readers would agree, I love these types of posts mainly because they are RARE. By that I mean, there are too many “rumor” sites out there with complete nonsense out there and fan boards where most trade offers are completely absurd (like Yann Danis and John Sim for Jonathan Toews - you know what I mean)
I’d love to see you devote some non-game day time to things like this, not a rumor or a trade speculation, just identifying potential “fits” among teams (GM’s, players personal situations, contract status, where teams are in their life-cycles of development, etc)
Hopefully you can keep this going, on occasion.
The captain’s C is starting to become a scarlet letter around here(starting?!). The AHL is full of second round picks who can’t believe they’re not in the NHL. Let Guerin finish his contract, make him a fair offer on a new one and let him retire. Same with Weight. Long Island is a groovy kind of place to be a millionaire in your thirties with kids. Maybe we could sign some free agents if they thought they might be here for longer than half a season. It also behooves us to let the Rags mire in their own cap nightmare. Why let a divisional foe who throws my Cablevision bill around on free agents we need to sign off the hook?
Prucha flourished when Bettman’s new sissy rules were first implemented and nobody knew how defend anyone. The league has evolved to focus on skilled, bigger players who can skate and use their size as an advantage. Did we already forget the Washington and Anaheim games? Although I’m all for getting some value for Guerin, I’d rather get someone in return who isn’t going to get pushed off the puck so easily. Is Clark Gillies available?
If we can re-sign Guerin then I think it’s in the Islanders best interest to keep him. If not then I say make this trade, Prucha would be a great fit in Gordons system and would definitely benefit from the “change in scenery”
How long till this ends up on that other site(e2)
Of course, most of the fun in this is as a conversation starter. I made it clear from my Decent Proposal headline -”INDECENT” wrote a fan on Islandermania - that this was not a trade rumor, but something to talk about in the wake of Larry Brooks’ column that the NYR should get Billy Guerin.
But know this: Larry knows what he’s talking about. My two cents is, he doesn’t write it if he doesn’t believe Billy is near the end with the NYI. Although my read on the Guerin/Islanders situation has admittedly flip-flopped the last two months, I believe Larry is right.
So you have a player - yes, a captain - in his final months with the NYI. He has a no-move. He determines his fate. Billy is not going to Jersey. The Brendan Shanahan signing ends that. Boston, I’m not aware of interest right now. Your options are limited. They may be limited to one team.
I understand the sensitivity of dealing with the Rangers. Neil Smith used to have a field day plucking Islanders for fun - Pilon, Flatley. It didn’t get Neil anywhere. One of the many interesting aspects of the feedback the last 15 hours is that more Islanders fans seem to cherish Guerin than I would have thought from reading the comments here and on Imania the last two seasons.
Guys, I know what Petr Prucha is. When your options are slim and you’re already getting a decent draft pick, a guy like Prucha is not a bad try. Do not compare him to Jeff Tambellini. Prucha has a 30-goal NHL season behind him, even if it was with Jaromir Jagr. Today, Prucha is a better option besides Okposo for Bailey and maybe a Tavares than anyone on the roster. Unfortunate maybe, but true.
But in the end, let’s call it a (pb4). I’m now at 3 Comments on this subject and this one was over 100 words, so I have to go away…CB
The Rangers have no shot at the cup this year. Maybe they get to the conference finals if the get lucky in the standings. Maybe. The Isles seem to have this idea that they can take on other team’s once-was an coulda-beens and turn them into super stars. It never works. Prucha would just be another Tank or Comrie. Oh and if it did come down to a conditional draft pick, go Rags.
The Isles are going nowhere this season and Guerin, while effective, is past his prime. To get a draft pick for him would be great in itself, nevermind Prucha as the throw in. It’ll never happen because Sather isn’t that stupid and Snow isn’t that smart.
Prucha doesn’t play as it is, since for some reason Renney has no confidence in him. If the Rags are acquiring another wing and burying him even further in the depth chart, wouldn’t they rather cut their cap figure than have him languish in the press box doing nothing and costing them money?
I like Guerin, but I don’t see him helping is anyway for the future. No, scratch that. The only we he can help is by agreeing to a trade for a younger player.
I know you’re just speculating here, CB, but I would not mind a return of Prucha and a pick for Guerin. At the very least, this is the type of deal Snow should be making with Guerin, Weight, and Witt. Prucha, or someone like him, is the sort of player that you take a chance on. What do you lose, really? At worst, you get a 26 year old with a cheap, soon to be expired contract. At best, you get a guy who can provide the same sort of goal production as Guerin gives you (with legs that are 12 years younger).
The bottom line is that Guerin has to help this team and agree to a trade.
Prucha has been a healthy scratch for most of the last two years. The Rangers have been trying to dump his contract for most of that time and have found no takers. I wouldn’t mind giving him a shot in order to make the trade work cap-wise, but Snow has very little leverage in this deal. Sather knows Guerin has an no-trade clause and wants to stay in the area, so Snow’s options are limited. The Isles need to determine whether Guerin is really serious about re-signing here. If so, then I would be totally OK with extending him. He’s been a good leader and our leading goal scorer the past 2 years. If he’s not interested, then Snow needs to find out which teams, if any, he will accept a trade to and go out and make the best deal.
Relax, there will probably be a nervous GM or two near the deadline and Guerin might get that “I want the cup” feeling and agree to go to a contender.
Here are my deals ;
Witt to Edmonton for Schremph and #3
Weight and Pock to Columbus for Methot and a #3
Guerin to NYR for Prucha, Fritsche and a #3
Comrie to Buffalo for a #2
Let me know what everyone thinks…
NO!
Guerin will help the Rangers.
The Islanders DO NOT help the Rangers win!
End of story.
Now, would they like Tambellini and the guy in the crazy wig for their first round pick?
that guy in the crazy wig lives on my block!
Last year, Columbus traded Adam Foote - a pending UFA - to Colorado for a 1st Rd pick and a conditional 4th if Foote re-signed with the Avs, which he did. This summer, the Sharks dealt Craig Rivet to Buffalo for 2 second round picks. Therefore, if we trade Witt - which I am totally against - the price has to be TWO high draft picks, one of which MUST be a second-rounder.
to be honest , I’d rather have another nyr pressbox fav this year named Dan Fritsche
Fritsche has alot of speed and could be a nice replacement for Sillingers minutes if resigned over the summer
Losing Guerin for nothing would not be a suprise…take a look at all the free agents Snow has lost for nothing since he got the GM job….If the isles got a case of gatorate and a bucket of practice pucks for these guys, it would be better than what we ended up getting for them…
I doubt many other GMs would of let these 4 guys walk for nothing…
-satan
-fedotanko
-vasicek
-poti
Westfall - Schremp is a first-rounder who’s shown flashes of brilliance and is for some reason buried on the Edmonton depth chart. I would take him in a heartbeat. As it stands right now, Witt is a great player who doesn’t fit our team concept and is highly sought-after - I’d say he’s more valuable to us in a trade.
999 - I think you’re misstating the value of some of those players. Weight alone might be able to get more than what you have there (though I’m not against Pock). I don’t think Guerin would be worth 2 players off an NHL roster, and I think the best we’d get for Comrie is a 3rd rounder - at that point you wonder if it’s worth trading him or keeping him…And as I said above I’d do a dance if we could get Schremp for Witt.
Also, quick addendum - my man Cory Trivino scored a nice goal and added an assist for BU last night as they won big over UNH. Kid can really fly, and the haters need to calm down. Jack Parker (BU Coach) doesn’t play freshmen on the top lines unless there’s no way he can avoid it. Even Colin Wilson centered the 3rd line for the first half of last season. As Trivino gets bigger and stronger expect him to get more playing time, and I think we’ve got a real nice player there.
Nick Classic - first of all, thanks for the update on Trivino. I know Schremp is very talented and has scored in juniors and at the AHL. The kid is small and has had some ‘tude problems in the past, maybe that’s why the Oilers are down on him. How about Witt to Chicago for Andrew Ladd and a pick?
valentino on Jan 24th, 2009 11:47:38 said:
Losing Guerin for nothing would not be a suprise…take a look at all the free agents Snow has lost for nothing since he got the GM job….If the isles got a case of gatorate and a bucket of practice pucks for these guys, it would be better than what we ended up getting for them…
I doubt many other GMs would of let these 4 guys walk for nothing…
-satan
-fedotanko
-vasicek
-poti
Guerin: NMC!!!!!
Satan: NTC!!!!!!
Vasichek: NOT EVEN IN NHL ANYMORE!!!!!
Poti and Tank, maybe… but if you think that he was going to get anyhting of substance for them, I disagree.
What about the fact that he got an essentially equal player AND a 2nd round pick for Nokie? What about the fact that he actually got something for MAB? And Simon? Be fair here.
I recall Logan writing an article insinuating that Billy G was kinda at the end of his rope with this season. I’d like to have him around another season but as CB points out the Captain holds all the cards. Me-thinks that he might be walkin’ after this season so why not get something of value for him? I’d still like to see Weight extended one more year but he might not want to be here if his BFF is gone.
First of all, SHOTS for saying MAB (MORE SHOTS!)
Second of all, Westfall…Schremp has definitely had attitude issues in the past. However, he’s still a high ceiling player. I wouldn’t mind a guy like Andrew Ladd, but he hasn’t been everything he was promised to be on draft day (so far). Also, since the Hawks are a year removed from trading Tuomo Ruutu for him, I wonder if Ladd isn’t a realistic trade target for what we’d be giving up.
Since Guerin and Weight play so well together why not package them together…
Much as I like Guerin, if the Islanders can get “value” for him that will help the rebuild, then . . . oh well, do it. I like Prucha’s drive and go-go attitude this season. If it’s him, then do it!
bill guerin is the 2009 version of yashin..lets keep losing scrap the bad vets , get tavares and build the lighthouse
If Snow doesnt make a trade that benefits us because its the Rangers, he should be fired immediately.
We arent winning the Stanley Cup this year. Whether the Rangers win it or not doesnt matter in the development of the Islanders.
Yes, as a fan it would sting, but its not the end of the world. Grow a set of balls and stop caring what Ranger fans say and think.
From what I hear Snow has a high asking price for trades. I forgot where it was from but it said Snow tried trading cap room for a first round pick. So lets see what happens here.
If this deal ever was offered, it should be done immediately. As far as helping the Rangers, who cares! We are not competing with the Rangers for anything this year, or anyone else in the league for that matter (except for last overall).
I also liked the proposal of Witt to Buffalo for Max A. although we may be able to do better at the deadline. Remember what Philly got for Zhitnik?
If the Islanders can move Guerin to Boston the Bruins could offer a prospect but do not have a second round pick (the Islanders have it in the Nokelainen trade). How about trading that pick back to Boston along with Guerin for the Bruins first round pick. Might be a crazy idea.
Max A. is a ufa. Why trade witt for a ufa. Maybe witt for max a and a #2.
In this deal the Rags would get one chance of being helped (Guerin). The Isles would get two chances of being helped (Prucha, pick). If there are no other options you have to do the deal.
Still, the only reason I’d be comfortable is because I personally don’t think Guerin would help the Rags THAT much. And if he goes to them I hope he keeps bumping into his teammates every game. lol.
I would prefer prospect than picks as prospects are usaully a yr or 2 closer to being nhl ready.
For all of the Guerin lovers - we will be bad for the next 2 years with or without him and Weight..and this year’s Free agent class is not as strong as last year. And the few Good free agents are NOT playing for the Islanders. So be prepared for a big signing of Dennis Seidenberg & Larose. Not a Hossa or Gaborik, that’s reality.
NEVER NEVER trade to help the rangers NEVER
I say DO IT. Good players seem to go dull under the Rangers watch. I never cared for Guerin and I don’t believe he would want to retire here. Throw in his buddy Weight to get more in return, since they are basically gone anyway.
wow. I proposed almost this exact trade a month ago.
Everyone cried heresy.
I would do this trade in a second.
Under scott gordon im confident petr prucha would be back to
his 30 goal form.
He’s a good young player, that is not being handled correctly with the rangers. he would be embraced on the island.
Bill Guerin isn’t going to win the Rangers a Cup. They and their paper-thin defense will go as far as Henrik Lundqvist takes them.
He doesn’t give them cap space or relief.
I understand where traditionalists argue “you NEVER help the Rangers,” but let’s step away from the ledge for a second, and see just who is really who here.
If Guerin can net the Isles Petr Prucha and a high draft pick, do it.
Thats a joke, we all know what the going rate is, and a player with six and seventeen points the last two years, injuries aside, is not in line with any of the trade deadline trades of the last few years. And a THIRD round pick, really???? Guerin has 32 points this year, which is very comparable to Ryan you know who’s 36 points. We all know what we gave up for Smyth, and thats the going rate the past few years. THREE prospects, including something near round ONE. The Rags are at cap maximum, so if they want to improve their team with a minimal cap hit, as Garth says, that is worth a lot. You want our cap space (i.e. we paid Guerin for most of the year), you have to pay for that AND the value of the player. Guerin would be the Rags second highest scorer now, and thats with stats compiled with the worst offensive team in the NHL.
I’d do that trade for Prucha in a heartbeat. You have to get some value out of these tradeable players like Guerin, Weight, Witt, etc. Prucha is a good player who needs ice time-and he’s not getting it on the Rangers. You’re not getting first round picks for ANY of the players we have-if you think that then you are not only over-valuing our players but you are insulting the GMs of the other teams. Let’s face it, how much worse could this team be without these guys. I mean we have 13 wins. On pace for like 23-25. Maybe. We could call up the entire team from Bridgeport and finsh that bad. Heck, with all the injuries we’ve had this year its pretty much been that way as it is. Get WHATEVER you can for all these guys. I’d get rid of Comrie too. He won’t resign with the Isles he wants to win
Take a look at many post lockout trade DEADLINE deals. Look at Brad Richards last year. UFA I believe at the time (if not, there are plenty others). 62 points last year. Guerin is right in line with that output. Their age is irrelevant, because in a walk year, you can walk as fast as RS did from LI. Even look at the Guerin trade 2 years ago. Many many others.
Guerin has to make a decision, if he wants to play in the Northeast, then he stays. If he is willing to play for a winner, then waive the no move. Cant have it both ways. 2 years ago, Zhitnik was traded twice, one team got Freddie Meyer, another team got Braydon Coburn at the deadline. When you trade at the deadline, you pay more for two reasons. One, its a playoff push, and two, you are using another teams cap space, since that team already paid 85% of the salary, and there is no payroll in the playoff. A 60+ point player on the worst team in the NHL (could score much more with a veteran quality team) is worth far more than another team’s headache and a third round pick. Period. Garth should have NO interest for mediocrity or another Freddie Meyer level player for someone that could be on a first line power play unit in the playoffs. Thats a totally absurd trade, and after the Zhitnik nonsense two years ago, its stunning that anyone would really consider this absurd hypothetical trade.
Random comments after a weekend away:
I like how players who haven’t even been here yet - Katic, Kohn - are now included in lists of players who must go.
Guerin actually does NOT have to agree to anything.
Repeat after me: Could HAVE. Would HAVE.
Well said, Jason W (118).
Do it in a second!!!!!!!!!!n Prucha has proved that everytime he plays he goes hard and SCORES!!!!!!!!! Do it Snow and do it fast!!!!!