Comments on: THE FARCE THAT IS PLUS/MINUSThe most thankless stat in hockey

By: Bold AS

Bold AS — Tue, 21 Jul 2009 20:10:57 +0000

I agree to a point. But think there are caveats. A strong player with a weak team may incur a – season true. Brian Leetch at the end of his career springs to mind But what of the player who stands out with a -20 rating on a good or excellent team? Daniel Briere may be excellent on the PP, but is essentially a defensive liability at even strength. there is no doubting his talent -but only in certain situations.

By: Islander505

Islander505 — Sat, 07 Feb 2009 00:02:07 +0000

Potvin (Denis) was something like +360 for his career……

Bogus?

By: 19 ISLE in NJ 22

19 ISLE in NJ 22 — Fri, 06 Feb 2009 23:34:01 +0000

Keep in mind … the +/- only represents when a player is at even strength or you get a plus if your on the ice when your team scores short handed … or a minus when a short handed goal is scored against … Some players get a huge portion of their ice time during a power play or short handed.

If player ‘A’ is on the ice for 10 mins a game at even strength … and player ‘B’ is on the ice for an avg. of 6 mins a game at even strength .. then player ‘A’s -/+ will fluctuate more wildly game in game out.

It’s a very subjective stat … I used it in conjunction with TOI and what lines they face … I don’t look at it as a seasonal stat.

Kind of like when a goalie has a .919 save % … but a 3.65 GAA b/c the team in front of him stinks defensively … which stat says the most about the goalies skills? It’s subjective … right?

By: Josh

Josh — Fri, 06 Feb 2009 22:40:09 +0000

Personally, I don’t mind +/-, but when you look at it, I always look at the goal differential of the team the player is on.

So the Islanders as a team are -45. Mark Streit is +2.

Without the team +/-, the stat looks meh, but in comparison you get the true picture which is that Streit is really good and the team is far better with him on the ice, than off.

By: SIR WILLIAM

SIR WILLIAM — Fri, 06 Feb 2009 22:02:26 +0000

The plus/minus stat is a good way to judge the defensive responsibility of the forwards. The stat is telling over the long haul. If a forward is consistantly a plus player that means he is backchecking and worry about his man the his defensive zone. If the same player is always a minus then it shows that he is not putting enough emphisis on taking care of his own end.

The stat is a mouch more valuable tool for forwards than it is for d-men….SW

By: jbranny

jbranny — Fri, 06 Feb 2009 20:57:27 +0000

Witt is not a good defenseman this year. He is too slow and generally not a good skater. His -29 stat is a good indicator of whether he should be considered a shut down D. This year he is shutting down no one. Zednick made him look foolish last night.

By: FIsles

FIsles — Fri, 06 Feb 2009 20:41:48 +0000

It’s an iffy stat, but it’s not bogus. The important part of the stat is that it tells with reasonable accuracy how many goals for and against have been scored when the player has been on the ice even strength. On its own the stat doesn’t reveal much, but when you combine it with TOI and the respective numbers of other players on the team, it becomes more interesting. To study it in more depth you need to combine the plus/minus and TOI with analysis of the quality of competition and the quality of teammates. In NYI’s case the highest quality of competition is faced by Brendan Witt whereas the lowest quality of competition is faced by Campoli and Tambellini.

There is also the Corsi number that accounts for shots for and against when the player is on the ice. Not a tell-all stat by any means, it’s flawed like the plus/minus number, but the worst Corsi numbers on the Islanders are those of Jackman, Witt, and Sim. All in all, the plus/minus on its own doesn’t tell much, but combined with more advanced analysis it starts to tell something.

By: West Coast Fan

West Coast Fan — Fri, 06 Feb 2009 20:21:04 +0000

I’ve always liked the concept of the plus/minus stat; the problem is that it hasn’t been applied properly. Currently, it’s just too simplistic.

You could be a great defensive center and have an overall minus rating, but that could largely be attributable to the fact that you’re constantly being used to play against the other team’s top line. You’ve been on the ice for more goals against, but the net result is still better than if a less effective defensive center had been out there.

There should be some sort of a weighting system involved, taking into account the relative stats of the opposing players on the ice at the time the goal is scored. This wouldn’t be as hard to develop – particularly given what’s now available in terms of computer strength – as one might think.

By: SIR WILLIAM

SIR WILLIAM — Fri, 06 Feb 2009 19:59:36 +0000

Then whay does every team in the league keep the stat?…….SW

By: streit02

streit02 — Fri, 06 Feb 2009 19:19:29 +0000

i have to disagree here on this one. Although i dont think it always tells the tale, there are a lot of things that need to be taken into consideration, but if a players plus minus is extremely high or extremely low, its not a coincidence. This is actually a stat i always judge a player by. (atleast take it into consideration). Would you argue that Streits and Witt’s plus minus arent a tell tale story this year? I love Witt, but hes been terrible this year, although i think his play has improved a lot the past 5 games

By: bystander

bystander — Fri, 06 Feb 2009 19:15:54 +0000

And of course Lidstrom

By: bystander

bystander — Fri, 06 Feb 2009 19:14:55 +0000

34 19 ISLE in NJ 22 on Feb 6th, 2009 11:57:08 said: Thanks for agreeing Bystander … examples of Stud defenseman … Lidstrom, Chara, Pronger, Rob Blake, S. Niedermayer, Phaneuf and Chris Chelios and B. McCabe in their primes .. and even S. Souray … or some retired players such as Denis Potvin, Ray Bourque & Kevin Hatcher … Those are STUD DEFENSEMEN

Of all the guys you mention I most agree about #5, Chelios, Bourque and Pronger. I would also add Scott Stevens.