TRUE VALUE: Doug Weight
First in a month-long series on potential trades
First in a series from now until March 4 assessing the value of Islanders veterans and the possibility of a deal before the trade deadline.
Player: Doug Weight, C
The Story: After a miserable ’07-08 in which he was dealt from St. Louis to Anaheim and then not given a meaningful role, Weight signed a one-year contract with the Islanders and has enjoyed a renaissance. He has been productive on the ice – especially as a point man on the power play - and has served as a role model to prospects such as Josh Bailey. He has spoken appreciatively of the franchise and the region. With the Islanders rebuilding and in the role of sellers, Weight is a valuable asset at the deadline.
Stats: 8-25-33 in 38 games, 20 power play points
Pluses: Deft playmaker; low-maintenance attitude; can play the point or a traditional role and immediately upgrade your power play; Stanley Cup winner with Carolina in 2006.
Minuses: He’s 38 years old. Weight’s not playing like it, but that number 38 will stick in the heads of general managers – as in, “You really expect me to give up X for a 38-year old”?
Trade Hurdles: None. Weight is on a one-year deal with incentives. Any bonus issues can be worked out between the Islanders and their trade partner on the NHL hockey ops conference call when the deal is consummated.
Wild Card: The Islanders could decide they want the respected veteran for at least another season and sign him to an extension before the trade deadline. A month ago, Weight seemed to make it clear he had no desire in playing the game where he goes somewhere else as a rental and then returns to the Islanders as a July 1 unrestricted free agent. But if he’s traded, wants to play next season and the Islanders show him the love and the money more than anyone else, would he really look away?
The GM Sales Pitch: “Doug Weight has 33 points in 38 games, which would make him one of your leading scorers. He’s a terrific guy, he’s already shown in Carolina that he can fit in quickly as a rental and help win a Stanley Cup. The day he shows up, your power play gets better. Dude’s got a thousand NHL points and he’ll get you a point a game down the stretch. Who do you think you’re going to get who’s better than Weight”?
True Value: a second round pick and a Grade B prospect
PB View: Even if the Islanders are only offered a 2009 second round pick, they should trade Doug Weight. Doug has been terrific for the Islanders, but for a rebuilding franchise the pick is more valauble than the veteran center playing the final 19 games of a playoffs-less season. If the Islanders still want him so badly they could always make a run at him July 1. When Doug signed last summer with the NYI, he had to know the Islanders weren’t expected to be world-beaters and that a trade could happen.
Prediction (as of Feb. 2*): Weight is traded near the deadline for a second round pick, at minimum.
*True Value maintains the right to routinely change our prediction between now and the week before the trade deadline!
Later this week in True Value: Mike Comrie. Comments.
123 Responses to TRUE VALUE: Doug Weight
First in a month-long series on potential trades
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Eric says:
I’m a fan of him as well and wouldn’t be upset if they resigned him for another year. Although I completely understand if they part with him at the deadline
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JKP in Halifax says:
Personally it’s a toss-up for me. I believe he could have more value on the team helping to teach the “kids” how to be pro players, both on and off. Students need mentors and I think (albeit from afar) that he has the right attitude to help in that department.
A middling to late second rounder doesn’t do enough to develop things versus having a solid citizen to help mentor the kids like Josh, Frans and Kyle, IMO. I’d try to keep him another year (at a home team, we helped revive you discount).
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He’s the toughest of the bunch. I can see the reasoning for trading him for a pick, but I think it’s better to have him than not. Here’s my reasoning: I see Bailey becoming a Weight Clone. If this is going to happen, why not have the man stay here and teach Bailey??
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James says:
Love Weight and would have a hard time letting home go, but you have to sell while his value is high.
Furthermore, even inasmuch as he fills a great veteran leadership role, if this team drafts Tavares, where exactly is there room on the depth chart for Weight?
Already you’ll have Tavares, Bailey, Nielsen, Thompson, plus Colliton, Smith, and Walter (and possibly Comrie). Just a thought.
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Will says:
Great idea for a string of posts CB. One question; what are the odds the Isles make a (or a few) trades prior to deadline day? It stands to reason you get more return for more time the player they trade can spend with the new team.
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great article. i have said this a thousand times. having a mentor is overated. we need to rebuild through the draft. weither the second would be used as depth ( lines 2-4 or defensive pairings 3-6 ) or catching a good player ( lucic ) or a steal ( lidstrom ) or we can use it to package for a bigger deal. thats four second rounders to help this rebuild. plus getting rid of him helps us lose. were on a winning streak so we can use the losses.
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Moose says:
CB, great idea for a series.
I see Weight and Comrie going. Guerin’s NTC means he stays, and I doubt Sutton will be healthy enough to move before the deadline.
I’m curious if Witt stays or goes.
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OhNoItsComeau57 says:
Islanders shopping Doug Weight, maybe Comrie next week (e3)
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crazy joe davola says:
@ Ohno
Can we please keep the Eklund terminology out of this? No man has gotten further being absolutely full of s*&^ than that guy. Starting to get fun to watch this team again, but rebuilding requires sacrifice, and lots of high draft picks
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Tom says:
Will the Isles meet the league minimum without some veterans on the team? Thank God there are laws in the CBA protecting Isles fans, because Wang would have team payroll down to 25 million.
They keep Weight to hit the league minimum for next year. Wang is pissed, but he has to retain talent, no matter how much it costs.
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UIF says:
Just curious, CB, as to what if anything changed in your line of thinking from early last month when you suggested it wouldn’t be a bad idea to keep both Weight and Guerin rather than taking second round picks (the second rounder “mock story” was just for Guerin, but the blog mentioned keeping both he and Weight)?
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admin says:
UIF: back then, I was presenting both sides of the argument. For this True Value series, I have to take a stand. In this case, here is the equation: do you want:
a) a second round pick in 2009
b) Doug Weight playing the final 19 games of a regular season for a team that’s out of the playoff picture.
It’s no deeper than that. Do not factor mentoring into the equation or extending Doug. You can try to re-sign him July 1 if you really want him that bad. He will have been with Josh Bailey for 6 months. It’s really necessary to have him for one more?
CB
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Brian G says:
Possible TRADING PARTNERS FOR WEIGHT:
Montreal – Lang got severed a tendon in his leg yesterday looks like he might be out for the season.Columbus – already has had Dialog with Snow & a 2nd round pick is believed to already have been offered.
Vancouver – They need immediate help before they fall out of the playoff picture
Pittsburgh – Looking for help on the PP and scoring depth
Phoenix & Florida: both of these teams NEED to make the playoffs
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Big Dog says:
I’ll take the 2nd rounder. If the scouts fall in love with a guy in the #20-30 range in the draft, we’ll have enough firepower to move back into the end of the 1st round. If not, the more darts you have, the more chances you have to hit a bulls eye….
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ISLESFAN999 says:
Id definitly want a #2 and prospect for him. He is definitly worth more than a #2. We traded a #2 for Zednik. Weight is a very good player who will excell in the playoffs. Good aRTICLE.
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Thanks for the response, CB.
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those are some good trading partners. what about chicago and oilers and flames.
they may look for the extra depth and experience. just throwing it out there. oilers may also want witt so that could be quite the package deal. witt weight and bostons second for a first and schremp. doubt it but just throwing it out there. -
Pat says:
Chris, you mention a “Hockey Ops” call – and I don’t know what that is.
Makes me curious about the actual interaction and how a trade is enacted from an operational standpoint.
Is it as simple as Snow saying to another GM – “OK lets shake on Weight for your second rounder ” – what are the formal processes that take place in order to effect a trade. ?
Thanks
Pat
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JPinVA says:
The Islanders have 3 2009 second round picks. If Weight goes, then Guerin follows. I guess it’s time to poop or get off the pot.
I’d personally like to see weight and geurin stay another year. That relationship has been one of the better storylines this year, and the mama birds shouldn’t be forced out of their nest until the hatchlings are ready to fly.
You’re going to have to make up their salary anyway.. and i hope they don’t plan on giving Comrie $10M per to accomplish that. -
im sure they will find somei=one to invest it in ( gilroy, komisaurus, a fighter, tavares, hal gill) we can say that thye will get overpaid but we need to hit the floor
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PTA says:
I think the value of a happy Doug Weight is worth a lot to the Isles and the development of the kids. I would keep him since do we really need another grade B player? Are we assuming that we could land a few veterans to help with the kids next year or do we think thay can stand alone? I don’t think they are ready to lose his kind of leadership.
Thanks CB.
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Isles1972 says:
I love Doug Weight and what he has done with the Isles this year. The only way I would trade him is if Snow can absolutely not say no. Come trade deadling, teams get desperate and some team may be willing to really overpay. If that is the case, do it. If not sign him up for another year. It won’t the kids, it will only help them when times are tough next year.
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Kevin Fitz says:
I think what they do with weight will be a sign of what there intentions will be with the first pick if they get it. If they keep Weight and sign him for another year they are taking Hedman. If they trade him, they will take Taveres. If they keep Weight for next year and draft Taveres, they will have too many Centers. They would have Neilson as their fourth line center. I think Nielson has proved this year that he is a strong third line and maybe eventually a second line center.
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JayK says:
It’s possible that in a trade we could take back salary, somebody who also will be a UFA after this year. Maybe we get back a guy who is a 7th D-Man somewhere else, where the team we are trading with needs a forward but has D-man to spare. That way, we stay above the minimum.
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You need to trade weight if you can get a #2 for him. Try and get more but remember a #2 can end up being as good as weight. Recent good #2s include lucic, bergeron, derek roy, stastny, shea weber… its about maximizing picks…
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R.J. says:
A #2 and a “B” prospect is a nice “Get” for Weight.
I would probably bite at that if I were Snow. Though, my goal would be a 1st rounder.
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I think the Isles are LOADED with vets who generally work hard and can set good examples for the kids. You have Park, Hunter, and Streit, for starters. Throw in a guy like Hilbert, who will keep the kids honest by taking their ice time if they don’t work as hard as he does, and how many more vets do you need for the purpose of mentoring?
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pta mentoring is overated. he may not even come back. most likely if we dont trade him. you say do we need another b playuer. well do we need another old guy? besides its a young player that may be awsome, depth or a bust. i think id rather go for the possible awsome player over nothing.
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Ian says:
Trade Weight for a #2, take that and another pick or 2 and try to turn it into another first rounder…doable i would think?
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Mikey says:
We should sign him to a one year extension. He is producing on the ice and serving as a good role model for our youth. 19 and 20 year old boys need accomplished men and professionals to show them how to behave on and off the ice. We went down this path years ago. Does anyone remember the 1999-2000 Islanders? Connolly and Jokinen needed someone to show them the ropes, but Milbury/Gluckstern/Milstein left those boys out to dry. We all know that it stunted their development that year. Unless you get a first round draft pick, the benefits of keeping Dougie outweigh the costs.
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JP39 says:
If Garth can somehow get a 1st rounder in exchange for Weight, he deserves GM of the year. Believe me, I’d love for that to happen, but I don’t see any team giving a 1st rounder for a 38 year-old vet. Nothing against Dougie, I think he’s had a great season here and he’s shown what a great person he is to the franchise in the short time that he’s been here, but I’d be happy with a 2nd rounder and a prospect. IMHO its a no brainer that he has to be dealt before the deadline. We are in a full out rebuild, he doesn’t have much value to us beyond this season.
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Brett says:
The smart thing for the Islanders to do is going to be to trade Doug Weight around the deadline. They really don’t need him to be around for 19 games in the end of the season. The end of the season will hopefully be a time of calling up prospects and seeing what they have at the NHL level. Trading him for a 2nd would be good but I think it would be better for them to acquire a 1st rounder, maybe by trading Weight and a 3rd for a late 1st rounder. Any thoughts?
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Bryan says:
Trade him. He has little value to a team that is destined to be bad for the next 2 seasons.
I love the guy but I loved Cliff Ronning too.
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Swan says:
Mikey, nice post and I completely agree
Fans who believe that leadership and mentorship are overrated in hockey are not paying attention to how winning teams are constructed and are too young to remember recent Islander history. The emphasis of youth, rebuilding through the draft and hiring a hot young coach was done many times by the Isles since ’93. Heck, it was already done this decade during the Laviolette era. We are still a last place team with the worst attendance in the NHL.
Unless the deal is too strong (e.g., 1st rounder, top 6 prospect) or Weight is willing to return in July, we should keep him. He is still the best forward on the Team right now, even if he didn’t have mentor/leadership skills.
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The islanders have the potential to completely own the second round. they have three picks already, and i’m sure when CB does his TRUE VALUE of Comrie, Guerin, Witt and Sim… we should have at least two more seconds, a third, two bags of pucks and thre topping thick crust from papa john’s.
Remember all the “potential” we had at last year’s deadline. what did we get…Can I say…STUGOTS… here? -
redz says:
love the way this is presented, giving a fair assessment of the player’s value and a realistic view of what to expect in return, and why.
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haha jpinva, we were in 6th place if i remember right last year and then everyone got hurt so we werent in a position to trade. STOP LOOKING AT ME SWAN! i think we have enough vets so i think we can roll the dice and trade weight. plus we have an overstock on centers so if were going to get rid of one lets trade weight and actually rebuild. what the hell does attendance have to do with trading weight??????
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isles316 says:
I think you have no choice but to trade Doug Weight. I know some of you want him to help out guys like Bailey and Okposo but I think that is entirely over rated. If the Red Wings can get guys like Zetterberg in the later rounds then the more 2nd round picks you have the more chance you have of drafting a sleeper. It’s a no brainer.
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Coach B says:
Take the second round pick. There should be some very good players available later in the first round, the Islanders can trade up. Tomas Tatar was very impressive scoring goals for Slovakia at the World Junior and defenseman Sefan Elliot who plays with Jyri Niemi at Saskatoon are just two examples.
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JPinVA – we don’t really know what we gots yet, at least not until some of the teams’ lower picks get NHL looks (or their walking papers). If the team gets a lot out of Ness, Hamonic, Katic, Joensuu, Petrov, etc, then Snow’s drafts will look a lot better.
This is a great idea, CB. It’s good to have a Guy Who Knows Stuff explain some of the ins and outs of the trade market and the Isles’ assets, rather than Eklund or somesuch.
I would like to hold onto Doug Weight, if for no other reason than he was a FA signee just this year; it doesn’t look good to prospective FAs to dump guys signed six months ago. I’m not saying a Jay Bouwmeester would suddenly decide to invest 6 years on Long Island (though it wouldn’t hurt!), but why would you indirectly tell him (or anyone else) that he was liable to be shipped off? We signed Doug Weight for DOUG WEIGHT, not for any future draft pick we could get out of him. Is it worth it to grab a slender chance at a decent player who won’t be ready for years, at the possible cost of signing a good player who will definitely help the moment he arrives?
If the Isles show that they take care of their own then it begins to erase the stigma of signing with them. It’s not the only thing they need, but since a new arena isn’t going to just rise from the ground like the Fortress of Solitude, they have to start somewhere, with something they can control – a sense of team unity and identity from the front office down to the ice and the staff.
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Lets say we trade him- then what? A 2nd round pick. But who is going to fill out the nwecessary cap space next year? Are we going to have to go hunting for another vet to give that moeny to? After trading Doug when he didnt want to be traded, isnt it possible that gets even harder to do?
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“We signed Doug Weight for DOUG WEIGHT, not for any future draft pick we could get out of him. Is it worth it to grab a slender chance at a decent player who won’t be ready for years, at the possible cost of signing a good player who will definitely help the moment he arrives?”
Whats the point of having DW here to help us “win” now or next year for that matter? We’re not making a strong run in the playoffs and we’re not winning a Cup. And it is quite possible we signed DW to see what kind of pick we can get. We need a salary and a player..i love em like the next guy but he’s not needed here anymore.
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41 nightfly on Feb 2nd, 2009 16:10:50 said:
“…I would like to hold onto Doug Weight, if for no other reason than he was a FA signee just this year; it doesn’t look good to prospective FAs to dump guys signed six months ago. I’m not saying a Jay Bouwmeester would suddenly decide to invest 6 years on Long Island (though it wouldn’t hurt!), but why would you indirectly tell him (or anyone else) that he was liable to be shipped off? We signed Doug Weight for DOUG WEIGHT, not for any future draft pick we could get out of him. Is it worth it to grab a slender chance at a decent player who won’t be ready for years, at the possible cost of signing a good player who will definitely help the moment he arrives?If the Isles show that they take care of their own then it begins to erase the stigma of signing with them. It’s not the only thing they need, but since a new arena isn’t going to just rise from the ground like the Fortress of Solitude, they have to start somewhere, with something they can control – a sense of team unity and identity from the front office down to the ice and the staff.”
GREAT comments, nightfly! -
cgs878 says:
It’s time for the Weight to be lifted off of this team. It’s nice that some people are sentimentally sweet on this guy, but we want a rebuilding franchise here! He’ll understand that it’s “just business” and (hopefully) harbor no ill will towards the Islanders. I just hope that they get a good deal in the process.
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so chris tmc is the plan to resign everyone to keep the cap where it is? we can sign someone else. going to the islanders is not unheard of. maybe snow bags another awsome person like streit. j-bo, gill, komisaurus. where ovbiously going to sign someone. good or not.
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(#42 Chris TMC) – there’s nothing wrong with giving some of the young guys some extra $$ to hit the salary floor, is there??
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mw147 says:
I can see both sides of this argument, but I prefer to sign him and keep him for another year. If we trade him now it is a lot less likely that he comes back.
It’s not just about the mentoring, although that does have a value. It’s about keeping the pressure off of Bailey, Neilsen, and possibly Tavares for another year until they are more ready to take on more pressure and minutes.
To me a #2 and a B level prospect does not do enough for me to give that up.
If we are lucky enough to get Tavares, he can play wing for one year while he learns what the NHL is all about. Let’s not make the Connolly mistake and expect him to be a superstar as soon he steps on to the ice.
Now if can get a #1 or some other really juicy prospects I would do it. But not for what CB says we can reasonably expect.
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Cincy says:
It’s a no-brainer. Isles get a 2nd rounder plus, they give up Weight for 20 games. They take the 25% salary savings and use it as a salary increase for next year. Weight re-ups for another year on July 1. Who wouldn’t like such a deal?
I can only think of one spoiler… Potential trading partners. Remember last year? We ALL over-estimated the value to be received for Satan and Tank. “A 1st rounder, at least!!!” “At least a 2nd rounder and a prospect!” We got zip.
A 2nd rounder for Weight is a no-brainer. A 3rd? We should still do it. A 4th? Maybe. Maybe not.
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cgs878 #48: I don’t think I’ve ever heard of an in-season raise! They’re all working under contracts.
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cincy we got zip becuase we were in 6th. i am pretty sure about this. then injuries happened, after the deadline. what were we supposed to do? go back in time and trade them knowing we would be knocked out becuase of injuries? pressure minutes? come on. being in the nhl means pressure. getting less minutes and having a vet takes it away? they should be happy and determined to take the weight when weight leaves. besides, this is a team. when weight leaves everyone should be taking some of the load. not just the youngings.
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First round pick or resign him. Who cares what his age is. Anything else is a ripoff.
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For vets, we have Guerin, Comrie, Weight, Hunter, Park, Sillinger*, Hilbert, Sim, Streit, Witt, Martinek, and Sutton. I’m probably missing one or two. Keeping in mind the players in this group that actually have trade value, I’m interested to see who the “keep Weight” posters here would move and who would they keep? Some of these guys who should probably go but have no value are still under contract for next year.
Personally, I’d trade Weight, Comrie, and Witt (Guerin if possible, but the NMC probably kills that idea), waive Sim, and keep the rest for your “mentoring” and leadership. We don’t know yet what Silly has planned. If including Sutton or Marty with one of the guys I’d trade would increase the return measurably, then I’d probably do that. Well…maybe not. I don’t know about that…it’d really depend.
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I have to say, I’m pretty surprised by the preference of some to have Doug Weight play the final 19 games of this lottery season instead of having a top-60 pick in the next draft.
There also seems to be a lot of over-reading into things: what Weight has to do with 18-year old John Tavares just because they’re centers, I have no idea. The notion that if they trade Doug, they’ll never see him again? He’s 38. Mentoring Bailey for another month or year? Really seems a stretch, IMO…CB
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Dan says:
Doug Weight to Montreal for Tomas Plekanec and a 3rd or 4th round pick.
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I’d move Comrie, Witt, and (though I hate to) Park. Of them all, Park may have the most value as a checking center/PK specialist with some touch, kind of a poor man’s Mike Peca. Witt is probably next – I can see the right team looking to nab him for a 2d rounder and hoping he’ll return to last year’s form. Comrie has maybe the least value because nobody’s sure what they’ll get from him outside of seven toe-drags per game. He really should be a number-one center. Maybe the Isles can hook someone on his talent and get a little value for him.
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nightfly, what I was trying to say is that we didn’t get anything for all the vets we were “going to get value for at the deadline”. I have no problems with Snow’s draft… well.. except they may need to spend some time at the Golden Corral.
I agree with the trade stigma, but for different reasons. In Guerin and Weight’s cases they would really like to stay here (assumed) to maybe finish their careers. It’s hard to talk about men that young retiring, but I know if i was in my last years at a company i wouldn’t want to be shipped every year. You know, that gets old… and for a second round draft pick.
Somebody mentioned the list of really solid players taken in the second round. GREAT… but CB also pointed out the case of Joe Shmoe stuck in the ECHL… and there are a lot more of those in the second round. 2003 2nd round…
Patrice bergeron…then the drop off to Fritche and Shea Webber… we had three picks.. miss…miss… fourth line upsider.. Not enough darts? -
Load up on as many picks as possible. Teams become very desperate when they have a GUY that they have been watching and have a chance to take him. Having the assests on draft day doesn’t really mean we have to use them to draft. As for any of the vets…..it’s a business…if they want to play here next season, they will sign here….but we have to get some value out of them. BTW….the way the team is playing now is a bit scary considering we were almost guaranteed and 1 or 2. Now only 4 points behind ATL.
Easy boys. -
nightfly, what I was trying to say is that we didn’t get anything for all the vets we were “going to get value for at the deadline”. I have no problems with Snow’s draft… well.. except they may need to spend some time at the Golden Corral.
Hahahahaha! Good point. I misread you at first. I think that as far as getting no trades last season, the Isles were stuck… like others have said, we were hanging around: maybe a playoff team, maybe not. Also, Miro and Tank were having fairly bad years and had poor value. I think Snow’s hand got forced a bit. He couldn’t get what he liked for any of them so he held on and hoped to get a playoff berth out of it. Needless to say it blew up in his face, but them’s the breaks.
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A 4th for Weight? That is just insulting. A 3rd is also pretty insulting. A 2nd and prospect is about his value.
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This is my only quandary for the deadline, simply because this team without Weight has looked much worse, and they could use one more bridge year to The Future.
I’d say: Feel out the trade market while also feeling Weight out for an extension (Expectation: He’ll want too much $$ and more than one year). I wouldn’t dump him just to dump him, but a 2nd rounder might be enough.
The FA market to replace him this summer looks decent enough, but the Isles have attracted few FA’s who could’ve taken a gig elsewhere.
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my memory must be shot… they made a nice run of it, but if I’m not totally brain dead we were under the mason dixon line by this time last year and falling fast. I clearly rememeber the debates over who would fetch a first rounder… I bet there are some good logan archives on the subject.
the previous year…YES.. STUCK.. and we lost an op to dump blake for value. But that team did make the playoffs and we did get some exciting hockey out of it. -
Jon says:
trade or no trade i want weight signed for next season.
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Rick says:
Trade Weight!
I think some of us are forgetting about the big picture here. Sure, this team looks worse without Weight. But isn’t that the point here? Let the kids play as much as possible while hoping we lose as much as possible to ensure we have a shot at Tavhed (leaving the ‘uch’ out for a moment, as I think he’s at the top of that 2nd tier of players).
Trade Weight for a 2nd or 3rd round pick before someone else moves one of their vets for the same.
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Trade him to anyone but the Rag$.
Perhaps Columbus would be nice as would FLA or a team where the second rounder would be closer to 45th overall instead of 59th overall.
Pat
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Lang is out for the season in Montreal, and they haver heightened Cup aspirations, what with it being their 100th season and all.
That could induce a panic move on their part, and might make them overpay. Plekanec? Sorry, no way they are shipping one of their top three forwards for a UFA-to-be.
But high pick(s) and/or prospects? For sure. I’d do it in a heartbeat.
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Dommy says:
Tom… after all the money wang has spent to keep you happy to keep the isles on long island and all the money he loses… you have some nerve saying that. Spoiled little bratty sports kid. Please daddy… give me more money. I deserve it.
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Kevin, lol. For the record, I respect your comments and you state them well. We disagree on Weight.
UIF, I think the must keeps are Streit, Park, and either Witt/Sutton. Park has trade value, but his worth to the Team is much higher than the 3rd/4th/5th round pick he would get back. Everyone else can go at the right price. I would resign Weight as the vet to lead the Team for the next season or two.
Trying to be objective, I only see Guerin, Witt, Comrie and Hunter as valuable to other teams. I wouldn’t resign Guerin. Not sure about Comrie. Hilbert, Martinek, Sim, Sutton/Witt, return by default.
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Plekanec is having a tank season. Canadians could easily trade him. He scored 20 goals + the past few seasons but is not looking too good this year. Its all about the Habs going deep into the playoffs and without Lang the Habs will be a desparate team. Weight on the PP would also be a big plus for them… Only Canadians argument would be Weights health.
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i know the name of the game is load up on picks, and i’m all for it. however, i am scared that without a weight or a guerin next season could be even worse than this season. we need a huge draft, some UFA signings, and a healthy rick. i doubt we’ll land any major UFAs (maybe garth can pull off another streit-like pickup, fingers crossed) and most of our picks from last year’s draft wont be NHL ready next season… where does that leave us? it leaves us desperately needing a weight like player to keep us relevant.
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@James (67): That’s their best-case scenario: A team that has an injury gets desperate and pulls a Waddell. Heh, I notice Montreal’s PP is also still missing a point man… But Gainey seems conservative w/ his assets.
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Chris this is a bit off this topic-Blue Jackets placed Alexandre Picard on waivers although he is looking like a bust as the 8th pick in 2004. What do you think?
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rb says:
does Bryan Trottier work with Bailey at all on things like face-offs? doesn’t he have a role in player development? all he did was score more than 500 goals, 1400 points, win a Calder, an Art Ross, a Hart, a Conn Smythe, and 7 Stanley Cups…jeez, I think he can teach some of these kids a thing or two
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HilbertSnipe says:
Anyone who gets NESN should watch the Beanpot semis tonight. BU & HARVARD started at 5. Watching Isles prospect Doug Rogers play Long Island native and possible future New York Islander Gilroy battling right now is great.
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Cahoward28 says:
What about Weight and one of our second rounders (not ours) for a first rounder? I’m not sure that is so out of the question.
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Strummer's Army says:
If Garth Snow doesn’t trade Weight and the others he’ll be making a HUGE mistake. He is a very nice guy and having a great year but the Isles need the assets. Also, if the Isles are blessed with Tavares the top three will be Tavares, Bailey, and Neilsen. Weight won’t want to stick around then any way and I am sure he and Guerin are not appreciating decreased roles.
Montreal just lost Lang for the year last night. They are committed to winning big this year and events like that can drive Doug’s value up even more.
The right thing to do is to clean out the cupboards.
Remember CB said before he only expect maybe 1 vet (who hasn’t fully bought in) to return next year.
Clean house Garth. Find players who fit the system.
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19 ISLE in NJ 22 says:
Dougie Weight had quickly became one of my favorite Islanders … that being said … there is nothing that he can do for us the balance of the season … or the Isles can do for him this season in pursuing the Stanley Cup … I think that the Isles if trading with a top contender should ask for a 1st round pick at the least (from the Boston’s, Red Wings’ & Sharks’ … and maybe even the Devils) … it will be a late rounder .. but Doug is the kinda player that will be a force in the playoffs and can help win a cup.
If it’s a fringe team or team trying to make a final push for a playoff spot … go for a second rounder and B-Prospect (or 3rd rounder) as CB suggested … just my opinion.
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When it comes to free agency the Isles have slim pickings because of their venue, it is not sexy enough for these over priced free agents. It seems like they attract some of the older vets who were free agensts, guys like Guerin and Weight. Guys who have something left in the tank and something to prove. If the Isles start signing these free agenrs and just start shopping them every year and dump them for draft picks, it may set a precedent. It may eliminate these type of players or free agents in the future. Just throwing that out there. I would prefer they try and compete next year, and Weight would be a good player to help with the power play. I believe he should stay.
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Hale says:
as much as i love doug..gotta take the picks….shoot if they end up with 4 or 5 second round picks they might be able to move up in the back end of round 1 more than once
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jax says:
Dump Dump Dump Dump
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blitz says:
Even based on his current production, DW will not receive a much larger role on a contending team next year. His options will be limited in the UFA world – DW wants to play a big role (ice time + special teams) something that usually comes with teams that lack talent and experience, ie. rebuilding teams.
I believe NYI are smart enough not to run 1-2-3 down the middle with Bailey, Nielsen, and Tavares (if a NYI’er). NYI would benefit by moving JT to the wing with a veteran center.
Finally, trading Weight will almost certainly result in an abyssmal PP to close out the season. Indirectly, this could put NYI closer to remaining 30th overall with the shot at the #1 or #2 pick.
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Chris, when I was saying that if the isles don’t trade Weight they will probably be focusing on Hedman and if they do trade weight they will probably focus on Taveres if they get the first overall pick had nothing to do with me trying to compare weight and taveres. If Garth feels that Hedman is what thie team needs more than Taveres, they Islanders will need centers for next year. Who better than Weight? So they would extend him. But if he feels that Taveres is what this team needs the most, there will be no spot next year on this team for weight (If Bailey stayed with the team for his first year, Taveres will), hence you trade Weight. The top three centers next year would be Taveres, Bailey and Neilson. Where does Weight fit in? He doesn’t.
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UFA signings that sign 1yr deals, including older vets, have FULL knowledge they could be traded at the deadline.
That’s why teams don’t agree to NTC or NMC in their contracts.
There is no ‘bad’ precedent to be set. It’s part of the game. NYI should not have anything to worry about. There are always vets looking for a deal: Weight, Comrie, Fedotenko, etc.
All expendable passengers on a rebuild.
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Trading Weight has NOTHING to do with whom NYI may or may not pick as a potential franchise draft selection.
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Chickendirt says:
CB;
You make some good points here. Personally I think it in the Isles interest to do a package deal for a first. I would do both Weight and Guerin and see who we can get a first rounder and B level prospect.
That’s going to boost any teams PP numbers down the stretch and give them good playoff positioning. A team like Florida on the skirts of eight will be guarenteed a post season birth with that deal.
This opens up two spots here where we can audition some people in BP. Some guys down there that even aren’t close to being ready could benefit from a taster at the pro level. It gives them a better idea of what they need to do to change their games.
Guerin, being the captain certainly takes a little punch out of the locker room. Either way, the last 19 games could be a good test for the kids to step up in the locker room and on the ice.
Might be easier for Guerin to waive that NTC if he’s going somewhere with Wieght.
Right now I think Florida and maybe Vancouver are their best trade partners. Vancouver missed the post season last year and Florida has a long post season drought where they may be desperate enough to give a little more.
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Blitz, I think that is exactly correct. Depth chart discussions on whether to keep Weight are silly. Even if they get Tavares (which I’m assuming they won’t), they will not run Tavares/Bailey/Nielsen down the middle. That would be a move to finish 30th in the NHL again.
I can’t see a professional NHL team putting Taveres or Bailey as the #1 center to start next season (it is neither competitive nor a way to try and sell season tickets. It is easy to root for the Team to lose when you are not paying $5000 a season to go to games). Weight is a true #1. If Weight is traded at the deadline, that means that Comrie is re-signed.
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MY feel trade witt, weight, comrie, comrie and guerin.
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Rob Serrano says:
As much as we may not want to, it is time to sell, sell, sell. Thanks for everything DW, but we need the picks. Lets get younger and faster. I would also shop Comrie, Witt, and Guerin if possible. If Dougie really wants to be with the Isles we will sign him on July 1st. It’s a business, nothing personal. Take the pick(s).
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It might be hard to trade guerin and weight together. That is a lot of cap space. Good teams dont have much cap space left. Trade em seperatley.
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(Swan-87) There is no way that they resign Comrie to be a #1 center. I have season tickets also and I root against them now when it is necessary. The future of their franchise has to be built around a star like Tavares. Why would we squeeze another year out of Weight, lose him to free agency and get nothing for him when we can trade him? We get a good draft pick in return and we can use that to build a solid future, instead of finishing around 10th next year just so we can win some games and contend for a little while.
The season means nothing if you don’t make the playoffs and I would prefer 15th in the conference rather than 9th.
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Islesfan;
The cap is prorated. The floor goes down as the season goes on leaving more space.
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I agree with a number of you that we should try to package Weight with one of our “acquired” second round picks for a first rounder and maybe another player to offset the salary issue if it will put us below the salary floor
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Dally Mac says:
He’s gotta go, they all gotta go. You think Brian Burke will keep dead wood. If he trades them he can always trade them back. Once the big fish go, the others trying to keep up will overpay. They will overpay!
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2277 says:
They should do what they did for Comrie last year, give him a one year extention. Doug has repeatedly said he likes playing here, wants to be part of a rebuild, and is still a strong player. If they trade a few others vets, and get some picks and prospects, there is no need to deal Doug. I’d sign Guerin too and let them teach and lead the kids.
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ken says:
well said Brett, pretty much summed up my postion and view.
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Thanks Ken, it just makes so much sense though to trade the veterans. We got screwed over last year and 2 years ago by letting a lot of our team go during the free agency period. Trading them allows us to build for the future with a some good picks.
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get rid of all of these guys..a good gm would have brought in solid vets to blend with the youth but we dont have a gm we have a bad backup goalie running stuff
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Matt says:
I don’t even know why this is a debate? Trade him. Free agents aren’t not going to come here because we signed Weight to a 1 year contract and traded him. That is one of the reasons he was signed to a 1 year deal. There are plenty of other reasons for free agents not to come here!! LOL!!! This is part of the buisness. Weight knows this, UFA’s know this, why don’t some on here? Give me a break I can’t even understand the argument here! WE ARE RE-BUILDING! We can pick up someone else in the off season and if DW loves it here so much he can resign with us in the off season. Bailey has been mentored by him all season 19 games is not going to have much of an impact on his development. Get a second and a prospect and if not just a second. We can use that pick to move up maybe or trade for someone else or just pick a player. There is talent in the second round and this draft is supposed to be real deep. TRADE HIM!!!!
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miket says:
Saying you love a place and that you want to hang around is the kiss of death. Its like when an owner comes out and supports a coach…the clock is ticking on Doug. Guerin and Comrie
Lets get what we can get and give some of the kids down in bridgeport a look. -
Justin Marques says:
One thing to think about, as Chris mentioned: Doug Weight loves it here on the island, and understands his situation. Secondly, the Islanders need to be above the salary floor next year. If the Isles trade Weight for a 2nd rounder and a B-level prospect, or straight up for a B+/A- prospect, they could offer him a large contract on July 1st (1 year/4.5 million), and he will almost definitely accept it. If you really want him to accept it, offer him a 2-year contract worth about $3.0 million guaranteed per season and he will accept it. Money still talks…
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beatlebailey says:
i am hoping we end up with EIGHT second rounders…there’s gotta be a player in there somewhere, right Garth? Garth?….
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it would be great if Toronto ends up with the 2nd overall pick meaning at the top of the 2nd round the Isles would enjoy the top two picks.
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Thanks everyone for the lively conversation so far. Kevin Schultz of Barry Melrose Rocks chimes in starting tomorrow while I’m away on assignment for a few days. He’s already working on some good pieces. I will also have posts, including Chronicles of Sarnia II and a second True Value. I hope to chime in from the road. Have a great week and please adhere to the Comment guidelines so Schultzy doesn’t have to play enforcer…CB
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Something else to think about: If you are able to unload Witt (a la Adam Foote for a late first, possibly?), Weight for a 2nd and a prospect, Comrie for a 2nd, and Guerin for a 2nd and a prospect, that would mean the Islanders would have two first rounders (their own and the acquired one for Witt) and six second rounders (NYI, TOR, BOS, and the three acquired). With six second rounders and two first rounders, the Islanders could do a tremendous amount of damage. Some notable names taken from the second round in the past few years: Camalleri, Pominville, Hudler, Weber, P. Bergeron, Dubinsky, Krejci, Booth, Stastny.
You could also package a late first rounder and two second rounders for a mid-first, or something along those lines. Let’s see it Snow!
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Brett, if the Isles let Weight go they will replace him with another FA. Comrie is my guess, but it will be another similar vet. They won’t go into next season with Bailey as the #1.
Weight probably brings in another 2nd rounder. Which likely means another Comeau-type prospect who might score 8 goals for the Isles in 2013. Definitely an asset, but not a short-term difference maker.
If I read you correctly, it appears you are hoping the Isles finish last again next season so they can go after the 2010 #1 pick.
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If the Isles resign or don’t trade Comrie I will sh!t myself. Comrie is a piece of junk. Weight is a good player/guy but it is time to move on. They can sign someone else in the off season and if they can’t they can sign DW who loves it here sooooo much. I don’t think anybody is thinking of making Bailey our #1 center. He wasn’t even projected to be a #1 by anyone. Time to start from scratch and “build through the draft”. Is DW a good guy? Seems to be. Is he a good teacher? I guess, thats what I hear. Is he worth a second and a prospect? I think so. Is it worth it? ABSOLUTELY!
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Don’t forget guys that Sillinger is quite capable of mentoring young players and even if he retires I feel like the Isles will give him a position like Dunham.
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Well Comeau isn’t done developing and he has shown more improvement than his stats have shown for it. I think they should trade Weight just so they don’t get screwed over and lose him to free agency. They should make a big pitch for Mike Cammalleri, maybe Robert Lang, Saku Koivu, or Sergei Fedorov. I agree that they shouldn’t go into next year without a #1 center but they can use a temporary solution with one of those guys, or even bring back Weight in the off season.
I don’t hope for the last overall place in 2010 also, but I don’t see it being a playoff year unless they really bring in some big guys. I would rather them get the 1st overall in 2010 also rather than miss the playoffs again in 9th or 10th.
With the Weight situation, I don’t really see him being a need to mentor the younger players especially because the deadline is so late this year, there is only 19 games left in the regular season after it. Also, they can bring him back next year if there are any serious problems. I am a big Doug Weight fan but I think he can benefit the team’s future more by being traded rather than staying here for the rest of the season and next season.
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Thank you Brett. Well said.
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Can we trade everyone on the team for picks. I don’t understand the need for just picks. Picking up a prospect is just as good in my eyes…
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Joe says:
Doug Weight for Shane O’Brien, young gritty defensemen, puts some size on our tiny D.
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Joe I like the way your thinking but I’d rather have Van’s other d-man Kevin Bieksa, who is as tough but a great skater, and PP guy.
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Spinner9 says:
As much as I’ve really appreciated and enjoyed Weight’s play this year, if the offer is right you have to move him (and make an offer to him in the off season). He really is the perfect free agent for a rebuilding team. He’s a quality player and person who makes those around him better and given his age you don’t have to worry about locking him up for a long time, just year-to-year.
All that being said its really hard to pre-determine what the trade market will bear for Weight or Witt or anyone else. People say we could get a #1 for Witt because Foote fetched one last year. Its possible, but the true buyers and sellers have yet to bet determined. Consequently, until we know the needs and who else is available we won’t know what value Weight or anyone else has. Maybe in the right situation Witt could fetch a #1 or if the demand is lessoned becuase of other D-men avaialble maybe a 3. If you sell too earlier you risk missing out on a team that gets desperate late and will overpay. Sell too late and maybe be left out in the cold.
One final thought. I think the team will be noticibly improved next year and not just because of the kids getting better. Assuming DiPietro gets healthy he provides a huge upgrade over what we’ve had all this year. I know a lot of you denegrate him for real or imagined ego issues but when he’s right he can steal games. Our current goalies have proven capable but they don’t steal games when the team has an off night. You can argue whether or not DiPietro is top 5 goalie or top 10 or 15, it really is subjective. What is true that when healthy he a very good professional goal-tender and will provide immediate benefits to this team.
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islestherapy says:
Just wanted to say, your blog is head and shoulders above the garbage over at hockeybuzz.
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Brett, I absolutely agree about Cammelleri. Right now, my guess is that Cammelleri and Orr are at the top of Snow’s wish list in the off-season. Cammelleri would be closer to home and judging by his negotiations with LA, money and contract length are more important to him than playing for an immediate winner. I think the Isles can get him if they show him the money and he is young enough for the Isles to consider him part of the rebuild.
Lang is possible I guess, but I don’t see it (another year to year stop-gap; #2 center asked to play #1). I think Koivu is even less likely. Fedorov hasn’t been a #1 in at least five seasons.
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Glenn says:
Garth needs to play teams against each other with Weight. If MTL is going to be heavily in the mix now with Lang’s injury, he’s got to go to teams like CBJ, FLA, or PHX and see what he can get with leverage on his side. A pick & a player should be the ultimate goal – not a stud player, but bodies are nice to have around, right? Never know when they will develop into something.
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Everyone talks about how the no major free agents want to sign on Long Island. It is obvious a stated fact. But why only go for picks when we may be able to trade some of these vets for young players with some experience.
Rebuilding through the draft takes time and patience, but also trying to bring in younger talent which can play now would benefit the club even more. Don’t just trade Weight for a #2. Get a player who can play now (a #2 plus Methot from Columbus). Trade Witt to the Flyers (read they are looking for a defencman) for a young forward (Lupul or Upshall).
Bottom line is this team needs help everywhere and getting more picks is great, but if Snow can also attain younger players who can step in and play now even better. Especially if they believe there is nobody ready to step up from Bridgeport next year. -
Trade him before Father time catches up to him and then we have NOTHING. As CB has stated drafting another top #60 player along with the other four can only help speed up the rebuild.
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SIR WILLIAM says:
First Doug Weight has been a gentleman and a great pickup.
Ralph Kiner tells this story about leading the league in home runs and getting offered a cut in salary by his GM.
Why?, Kiner asks.
“Becuase we can finish last with you or without you.”Goodbye, Dougie………SW
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Jimmy says:
dougies been a great addition to this team, he’s truely a class act and i certainly would not be upset if they do resign him for another year and keep him on to mentor these young guns. With that being said, if they do get an early-mid 2nd round pick and maybe a young 3rd-4th liner who can play now i think you have to take it beacause it is a rebuild and that fits what we’re trying to do. However don’t just trade him for draft picks just to stockpile draft picks we don’t need the Sharks 2nd round pick….
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SW…I use that same example when people call Garth a “genius” for signing Streit. Streit was a great pick up at a great value, and a gentleman and a pleasure to watch play the game to boot…give credit to Garth (and Streit) where it’s due. But calling the GM who put together the worst team in the league, rebuild or no, a “genius” is kind of comical. Jury’s out on Garth still, and whether he’s a genius or not will depend on how this team he is currently putting together pans out in a few years. But a genius because of Streit? We’d be the worst team in the league with or without him.
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UIF – it’s not just about this season. Streit demonstrates that a good FA can come to the Island and have a good season. That makes it a little more likely that the Isles can compete for other FA’s and build for the next few years. With him and another solid pick-up or two, plus our (hopefully) stud first overall pick, plus improved years from KO, Bailey, Comeau, Neilsen, etc… Now you can talk playoffs without sounding like an idiot.
I love what Weight has done here and wouldn’t be oppossed to seeing him back again next year. This draft class is supposedly very deep however and the extra second rounder could be well worth being Doug-less for the balance of the season.