TRUE VALUE: The latest rundown
Weight injury should make for quieter deadline
The announcement of Doug Weight‘s injury only reinforces our hunch that the March 4 trade deadline day, somewhat unfortunately, is not going to bring back a bonanza of draft picks and prospects. We’ll continue to do segments of True Value each week, but here’s our latest perspective after Thursday’s news.
Doug Weight: Credit to the Islanders for their honesty today, basically eliminating the notion that the 38-year center will be traded before the March 4 deadline. Since the Islanders like Weight very much, perhaps he will be this year’s deadline version of Mike Comrie and receive a one-year contract offer. Will Weight accept, or will he choose to talk it over with his family in the offseason?
Bill Guerin: The captain has a no-move clause. As of this writing, Point Blank is unaware of any teams in hot pursuit of the 38-year old right wing with a team-leading 15 goals. The rest of the NHL may understand Guerin won’t move far – if he consents to move at all. We don’t see an offer of a contract extension for Guerin in the near future, but that could change based on the play of the captain and his team down the stretch.
Mike Comrie: It’s ultimately up to a player to perform, but Comrie certainly was not showcased when he played all of 12:30 on Wednesday. If the Islanders want to get something of value for the second-line center – a UFA on July 1 – he needs to play his best and the team has to put him in the best situation to succeed.
Brendan Witt: Scouts polled after the last two Islanders games told Point Blank they didn’t expect a serious bidding war for the 34-year old defenseman who is not quite thriving in the Islanders’ system. Those fans who yearned for the fan favorite to be back next season may get their wish. We maintain our position that a trade would be best for both Witt and the Islanders.
Richard Park, Andy Hilbert, Radek Martinek: Three players respected by management and the coaching staff, three players on very fair contracts. None of them would bring back a major piece in a trade. Expect the Islanders to try and re-sign Hilbert.
- (Amazing how much better these jerseys are)
Trent Hunter: Same as the trio above, and with four years left on his contract. Not going anywhere.
Joey MacDonald, Yann Danis: For the mid-round pick they might get for one of them from teams in search of goaltending depth, the Islanders are better served just letting them battle the rest of the season.
Chris Campoli, Sean Bergenheim: This is where it could get interesting. The Islanders are in a rebuild, so why would they trade either or both of these young home-grown players? Most likely they will not, but consider this. They are the two young Islanders who both a) once again, are having up-and-down seasons with a new coach and b) are skilled enough to garner interest around the league. If the Islanders make the hard decision that this is as far as these two players can go on this team, they could decide the sell high.
To be clear, we would not recommend trading Campoli or Bergenheim and would instead like to see the organization continue attempts to maximize their talents. But from what we’ve seen, it’s impossible to sit here and declare there’s no chance they will be dealt.
Comments.
122 Responses to TRUE VALUE: The latest rundown
Weight injury should make for quieter deadline
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The jersey they wear now would be fine as a 3rd but our present third is so much nicer.
I do hope Doug plays here another season. I just love the guy… and considering the cold hard facts you brought up about the Isles prospects CB I think having him for another season will work.
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I don’t think there is a chane that Weight will sign without Guerin. Although it’s not a bad idea, concidering salary cap floor and all… Keep Bergenheim, he will come around, I hope.
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SIR WILLIAM says:
In other words, the Islanders really don’t have any players that anyone else around the league wants, except for Bailey, Okposo and one or two others.
That’s a pretty telling tale about the state of this team as constructed today.
It’s fine to be rebuilding, but it takes talent to rebuild……..SW
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Strummer's Army says:
That was the most depressing thing I have ever read! I pray to God that you are wrong CB.
I’d trade Campoli for the right package.
Martinek is and has been the most overrated Islander. Wheter he brings anything significant back or not let’s just move on. I am sick of watching his horrible play and the Isles need another kind of d-man.
I might resign Doug Weight after the draft if Tavares or Duchene are not Islanders. Would anyone seriously want to see Tavares or Bailey playing on the 3rd line in favor of Weight and Nielsen’s progress being slowed by getting forced onto the 4th line? Kinda smacks of BS in the rebuild.
If CB is right the rebuild is going to take one hell of a lot longer. The only way to accelerate the rebuild is to get something of value for all those who don’t fit in the longterm plans of the team or the system which is many of these guys.
Please let’s not have a repeat of the Ryan Smyth year where we were all hoping Garth would dump guys like Blake (according to Logan there was a good deal in place) and he does NADA. We all need a pick me up by seeing some of these guys go.
Guerin if he really likes it here can get resigned in the summer. This team needs assets.
If they can move Guerin,
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jonsson3 says:
Weight is good for the kids here and i think he might sign for next year. We have to keep Park, one of the most under rated players in the league. Bergy needs more of a chance and the rest can go especially comrie
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MJS says:
Bergenhiem needs another chance… on another team… I’ve seen it at least once that Gordon said that he wishes Bergy would maximize the defensive aspects of his game, and Bergenheim has done nothing… If Sean is going to keep trying to be a straight goal scorer he’s going to stay as he is, a strong checker and not much more. I’d like to see the team give someone else a try, especially if they can get a good return… I know Bergy gives it his all almost every night, but for all of his effort, he (recently) gets out of position and bad penalties…
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BTW Strummer’s Army: It has gotten to the point that whenever I even see your name before I even read your comment I automatically expect it to be bashing Radek Martinek. It honestly seems as if you tell CB that like every day.
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Ya TMC, well I’ll say it every day until I don’t have to watch crappy players in an Islander jersey.
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mm30 says:
My take:28 Games 56 points left to be had…the team as constituted without Weight should solidify last place.
IMO there are two priorities:
1. lose.lose.lose. people don’t want to hear it but you need to guarantee the 1st or 2nd pick.
2. play Okposo and Bailey in all situations as much as you can…they are the only reason to watch the team. Let them get experience and make mistakes when the seasons over in February.
randoms:Comrie should go at the deadline or be waived. no need for him to play on a team 20+ points out.
Jack Hillen should not be re-signed-I rather see McDonald or Kohn at this point. If your going to be small and poor defensively you better damn well be able to produce offensively.
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crap! you know cb i think i would rather you lie and say were getting high picks for guerin, witt and comrie and that there will be a huge bidding war. i actually have faith in garth and i say he will pull threw. tell me this. does anyone else think about the draft and getting the first pick and then say put on the pittsburgh game and see either malkin or crosby and see their impact or doughty or bogosian or pretty any other young awsome dman and get the chills thinking were going to get some of that and more down the stretch. things like that are going to make this rebuild worthwhile. unfortunatley i do not think we will be in last place again next year. we have a franchise goalei. argue with me on that but he will get us wins. especially if we resign weight and keep witt. but my point is that while atlanta sucks they still have kovie and ottawa sucks but they have the trio tampa sucks but thye have vinny. they have franchise players too but they have it at different positions whereas we have it at goalie.
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Dally Mac says:
That Weight injure happened right after the beautiful Okposo goal. Now my holiday on March 4th is gonna suck cause only Comrie is gonna be traded if we are lucky! Guerin won’t leave, because Weight is now staying. Sign them both for next year and try it again then. And yes it is a holiday here in Canada; 10 hours of coverage on three separate sports channels, it’s wonderful. Can’t wait.
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thepolishprince says:
Kevin – I gotta disagree with you that the team isn’t going to be poor next season as well. I like DiPietro a lot and think he is a very solid goaltender but I fear deep down that he’s not going to be able to stay healthy for any stretch of time.
If we get the first overall pick and draft JT and DP comes back healthy and can play 35 – 40 games and we solidify a piss poor defence I still see us finishing bottom five. There is just that little talent on the team right now. I for one am ok with another lottery season if the youngsters continue to play hard and develop consistently. I’d hate to see the team gutted and transformed back into a constant middle of the road first round and out team. -
Coach B says:
At bit off topic-I was listening to the Toronto Maple leafs radio post game show last night. They said if the season ended today the top teams for the draft would all be from the east-Isles (38), Atlanta (43), Ottawa (48), Tampa Bay (49), Toronto (50). Both Colorado and St Louis from the west both have 51 points.
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mw147 says:
Something is going to have to give – we can’t keep all of these players if we want to start bringing in the younger players and improve the team.
I would get what ever I could for Comrie, one of Witt/Martinek (our d is so thin that we can’t afford to trade both), and possibly Park (Hilbert can play his role just fine).
Maybe a package of 2 of them and our lowest #2 or a #3 could bring back a mid to late round #1 and a prospect.
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jbranny says:
MM30: Why are you bashing Hillen’s defense? In the last 6 games since his return his plu/minus is even with 1 assist. He is not getting any PP time yet and plays on a team that doesn’t score any goals. His D partner, Callahan, who is playing well and the same number of minutes, is -2 in the last 4 games with no points. Who’s the better defenseman?
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John says:
When thinking about what Vets may come back next year I think, like last year it’s a matter of roster spots. Once you count off the Kid line, Neilsen, Hunter, Hilbert, Bergenhiem, Thompson, and maybe Jackman that leaves three spots plus any reserves to be in Bridgeport. We all hope to add Taveres to the mix, so that leaves two spots for Vet leadership. Probable R. Park (under contract for next year) and one more from the rest. Either way this team will be mostly the same next year which is good. Not that the team will be good but, it will give the Kids throughout the organization another year to developement and a chance to draft Taylor Hall. Hopefully by 2010-11 or 11-12 there will be something worth watching (ie like in Chicago or LA).
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-Big Van Vader says:
->it will give the Kids throughout the organization another year to developement and a chance to draft Taylor Hall. Hopefully by 2010-11 or 11-12 there will be something worth watching (ie like in Chicago or LA).<-
This is when things on the Island (hopefully) will get REALLY interesting.
If they are able to land Tavares, and then next year be in position to grab Hall, it could be our version of Toews-Kane or Crosby-Malkin.
Then the Isles would be a force.
BTW, how good do you all think this Hall kid really is?
-D
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2277 says:
I’d drive Campoli and Gervais to the airport if they got traded. Both are disappointments every year – Gervais looks lost too often on d and Campoli while sometimes getting offensive, forgets how to play d completely.
I think Guerin, Weight, Park, Hilbert & Witt will be back. I’d guess Comrie, Bergie, and Martinek could be dealt.
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Jbranny re. Hillen. I’ve heard from fans who watch a lot of BPort games that Jack Hillen is horrible in his own zone. I’m not sure if it’s a fair assessment as I haven’t been to a single BPort game all season but that’s what I’ve been told.
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Bob Bassen says:
I assume that Garth and Go have their eyes on a couple of off-season signings. Who they are and how their thinking play’s into trading a current roster player is anyone’s guess. Obviously Komisarek would dove-tail nicely into the organization. The biggest strike against the D now is that they are S O F T! Hillen was knocked all over the place against Jersey. Hard for me to justify trading Campoli or Martinek unless we know that their is at least a comparable replacement for next season.
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mm30: I watch both teams and can tell you his defense in the last 2 months has really improved. He gets big minutes in Bridgie in all situations. He is tied with MacDonald as leading scoring Defenseman with 10 fewer games. I think people think he may be weak defensively because he doesn’t smack people around, instead he skates with them and prevents his opponents from doing their job. Btw…in the last 6 games Campoli is -3 (w/2A) and Gervais is -5 (w/0 pts). Throw Callahan into that comparison and Hillen looks like the best D of those 4. All of the small D in the NHL look like they get pushed around, but look at their D numbers and you will be surprised how effective they are. Hillen is a tremendous skater. It is way too early to recommend not re-signing him.
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For the Rebuild.... the right way says:
Caution to dumping all Veterans
- For the rebuild to be essential and maximize the potential of younger players, it is essential to allow as many younger guys the time to garner experience in numerous situations. The Isles have nothing to lose. In fact many would argue the more the Isles lose this season the more they have to gain for future seasons.
- However, we do not want to strip this team of all veteran leadership to a situation that they Isles had in the mid 90’s with a 21-year old captain. Most of the members of that team underperformed and vented their frustrations in the Long Island/NYC nightlife. Nassau county police officers often acted as a taxi service for that captain and many of his teammates over frequently. Luckily the Police Officers were Islander Fans.
- Keep a few character guys i.e. Doug Weight. Veterans that do not bring experience and character on and off the ice, the Isles need to have a fire sale. Make room for the younger guys to prove themselves.
- Question: Is next fall to early to give Justin DeBenedetto a try-out with the big club? He is 2nd only to John Tavares in scoring juniors right now. However, as we have seen with Tambellini, scoring on lower levels does not mean production in the higher levels. This thought is because of all of the recent comments that we have “NO SCORING” talent in the Islander system right now. -
Nick says:
haha bergenheim will come around? possibly trading him? this has to be a joke, you want to keep andy hilbert and maybe trade bergenheim?? If Garth pulls that off then I’m no longer a fan because I’ve watched to much good young talent leave this organization.
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C.J. says:
Strummer’s Army (Post #9). If the Isles do indeed move Radek Martinek, you’ll have a long list from which to choose from in terms of identifying your next bash-victim.
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Scott W says:
This deadline is a big test for Garth Snow. We don’t have alot to offer teams, so he needs to maximize what we have to offer. Guerin should definitely be resigned depending on how he has been as a leader through these tough times. Only Gordon and the guys in the lockerroom know that.
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mpisles says:
If this is really going to be a youth movement then get rid of mediocre players like hilbert park thompson and give guys like colliton and smith chances
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Macch says:
Oh well. At least we are pretty stocked up on picks from last year’s draft.
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Cruicky says:
I think if you expect any player to standout on this team, at this time, you are mistaken. The only players that will standout, are the goaltenders. And, with team defence as poor as it is, can you blame any goaltender. I believe RD has the worst numbers of any of the 3 starters.
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UIF says:
Man, if Bergy goes and all the vets stay, and they resign all the vets as well, then the verdict will be in on Garth as far as I’m concerned.
Bring back the same exact team and expect different results? *cue gameshow buzzer*.
Re-signing Hilbert, in my view, limits any chance Colliton has of seeing much if any ice time. Hilbert busts his butt, and I like him, but there are only so many fourth line “PK experts” you can have on one team. Do we want to stay with Andy Hilbert, or do we want to see what our “homegrown prospect” can do?
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I think Taylor Hall might be a better player than Tavares in the long run. As a matter of fact, if we were to draft Tavares I’d like to see him on the wing on the Okposo-Bailey line rather than at center. Bailey the disher and the other two the finishers. Maybe that’s a play-play unit instead.
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guerin13 says:
i think we’ll deal comrie for a pick. i hope that garth can sell witt around the league and get good value for him. it would be better for witt and nyi if they parted ways. that might be all that happens but you never know.
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It’s completely unreasonable to expect Snow to make a trade where there is no market. That’s what happened last year – since the team went on a winning streak right before the deadline, how would you justify trading Vasicek or Fedotenko or any of the others for a song to an already inflamed and unreasonable fan base?
I hope we see some trades and gain prospects and picks. However, the economy and the general depressed trade market may prevent that. Let’s all get that into our heads right now, and no more of this ridiculousness that you not liking what they did at the trade deadline means you’re no longer a fan.
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isles316 says:
Do the Islanders really need Park,Hilbert,Jackman AND Nate Thompson?
I like all of them for the most part but not on the same team. They all do the same thing. Can we trade two of them?
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Jax says:
“It’s fine to be rebuilding, but it takes talent to rebuild”
That’s why rebuilding takes more then a couple of years SW. They just started the rebuild. I’d say Bailey & Okpso is a pretty good start. After this year you’ll most likely get either Taveras or Hedman. So now you’ll have those 3 kids together and you go from there. They’ll most likely get another top 5 pick in 2010 as well. So there will be the talent you were talking about.
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I want to know how it is such a depressed trade market when only a handful of teams are sellers. We are one of only 5 or 6 teams willing to sell. Now I realize, Weight becoming hurt, hurts our chances of getting what we all hoped for, but the few the assests out there, the more teams will have to barter in order to get these player. More seconds wouldn’t hurt my feelings.
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Joey303 says:
Im still counting days until March 4th. Always exciting to anticipate, but I hope there will be some surprises.
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This may be the most irrational I’ll sound, but Nick, it’s strange how since Garth became GM, no FAs want to sign here, and there’s never a market for anyone we have via trades. Now, let me point out that I believe him to an extent on both points. But it really does absolve you as a GM from having to take ANY responsibility when those are the lines you’re selling. It can never be his fault as a salesman in that universe.
Personally, I’d like Witt to stay out of all those mentioned, but from a trade value standpoint, if the contract is the barrier to moving him, who signed him to that extension during a rebuild? Who gave Guerin a NMC? Who resigned vets like Comrie who have no trade value?
I actually give Garth a pass for all of that because it’s all in hindsight, really. But IF he resigns the same crowd now and expects anything different – either results on the ice or that they’ll magically get trade value – that would be a bit hard to take, from my immediate initial reaction, anyway…and IF it all goes down that way.
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Jislander7 says:
Why in the world wouldn’t they trade Comrie? Trade him for a 6th round pick if you have to! Just get something for him. Campoli, Gervais, Bergenheim, Thompson, they are all ordinary players. There is nothing special about any of these guys. Get what you can for them and start from scratch. Who cares about losing this year and next year?!?! The Isles need to be all about 2011. I expect playoffs 2011.
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mrlbem says:
Nathan Horton is in the 2nd year of a six year/$24 million contract. The last three years of his contract contain an NTC. Florida is on the playoff bubble right now. If you’re Garth Snow, would you try to put together a package of some of the players mentioned in this blog entry (Comrie, Campoli, Bergy and Witt) to get Horton? Witt lives in Florida, btw.
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mt275 says:
I can see us packaging Comrie, a 2nd round pick, and Bergy or Campoli into a deal for a legitimate prospect and a lower round pick.
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UIF, I understand what you are saying but when Guerin was signed the Isles were still trying to be a playoff team and maybe luring Guerin here was only possible with a NTC. As for Comrie, who knows what is up with him. He is not even close to the same player he was the first half of last season when he contributed nightly.
I don’t think Snow is the reason we can’t sign anyone. Weight and Guerin are two of the classiest guys in the sport and they came here.
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mrlbem (post 41). no way you’re getting horton for that package. horton and young and on the cusp of becoming a star. i think you’d need to add some picks to a package of campoli, bergy, and witt with campoli being a key part of the deal in terms of offensive upside and witt, for the now, in terms of his experience and stay at home presence.
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Jislander (post 40). While I agree that Comrie should be moved for a bag of pucks, it won’t happen if GMG adhere’s to his past mindset of “rather lose a player for nothing than get insufficient return”. Look at Satan/Fedotenko. GMG remained staunch as he didn’t feel a fair return was offered.
My mindset is ‘take what you can get’, but then again, that’s my I’m in IT and not a hockey GM.
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I’d throw in two of our second rounders. I don’t know how Florida stands vis-a-vis the Cap right now. Again, I’ve heard rumblings (from the Fla. beat writers–not The Site That Shall Not be Mentioned) that Fla. would move him. And he’s the type of young player we need.
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CJ, I agree with you. I think if the Isles weren’t 3 points out of the playoffs at last year’s deadlines, that Snow would have moved them. But if he wasn’t getting a fair return on them then why risk a shot at the playoffs.
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19 ISLE in NJ 22 says:
Forget for a moment what each veteran would bring in return for their current trade value … forget for a moment what they contributed to this season … but remember … next season … we need to meet the cap floor … and what that will be is anyone’s best guess.
We MAY HAVE TO resign Guerin and Weight … (I’m not sure if Weight met any of his bonus triggers this year .. so that may or may not affect the Isles’ cap responsibility for next season).
Either way … we are shopping for VETs next season if only to meet the Cap minimum … it doesn’t reflect on Garth’s re-build … he has no choice but to sign some players for $$$ that allows the Isles to meet the cap floor. So if Garth and Co. do re-sign Guerin, Weight or a new vet … don’t get bent out of shape … there is a reason he has no choice.
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ISLESFAN999 says:
Trade witt, park, guerin. Try to get 3 #2 picks this yr. Then replace those 3 with younger players 30 or younger this summer. I would also not mind trading Martinek for a #2 or 3.
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I’ve noticed a strong desire amongst some to retain certain players on the Isles that have had varying but inconsistent levels of success with the Isles the last 4 seasons or so … like Camps, Marty, Park & Hilbert … there are those that argue both for and against moving them.
Park in that group has been the most consistently effective. However even he to me isn’t untouchable… Of all our middle aged players … tell me who is irreplaceable??? Honestly… we only hold them in high regard … or low regard depending on the player because of where they measure up on the bench marks we’ve set for each player.
Bergy is one of those players on the cusp … it’s time for him to step up … or be stepped over.
Right now IMO … ONLY KO is unmoveable. Even Bailey to me can be had for the right deal… but it has to be generous.
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Isles1972 says:
With Weight probably not moving, I would then sign both him and Guerin for next year. I think Snow should do his best and try to move Comrie, Witt, Park (he is at his max potential), Martinek and possibly Campoli or Gervais.
First off, this defence this to be rebuilt. I know we lack the scoring, but to constantly give up 35, 40 ,50 shots a night is not going to help give you a chance to win. The free agent market has many good defenceman out their to sign (and not just major players either). Hopefully Garth could sign Gilroy, Sutton played well in this system, Streit, Hedman (if you con’t get Tavares, and try to get Komi from Montreal. With these changes alone, you already are a better team. -
I don’t buy that we have “no choice,” 19. There are other “vets” besides what we have out there on the FA market. Some are even fairly young, would fit with a rebuild, and are miles ahead of the talent we currently have (I know, I know, they’ll never sign here, so we should shoot for the bottom of the barrel instead…). Others will be goalies – and we should be looking for a “1a” goalie anyway…and will probably have to overpay to get one short term. There are other options to meet the cap floor.
If Garth truly believes that his best option for progress next year is the team he currently has, then he’ll bring back the same crowd. But if he tries to claim he has absolutely no other choice, I just don’t think that’s true.
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wf76 says:
19 isle Even Bailey to me can be had for the right deal… but it has to be generous.
come on give me a break he’s 19 yrs old and has been solid this season he’s learning I’m sorry he’s untouchable
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The goalie situation is a tough call … I can only assume that if DP is cleared to play next fall … that he is 100% healthy … which means we can expect him to play at least 50 games … DP was on the bubble of becoming elite … BUT … what this injury did to him or if it set him back is still a question … assuming DP is back to himself … he’ll steal enough points next season for the Isles to be a bottom 5-10 … I doubt the Isles would be any worse (depends on the roster honestly).
Look how injuries decimated the lineup … from top line to bottom line and on defense this season. Our franchise goalie all but out the entire year … and at this stage of the game we still are not a clear cut 30th overall… we aren’t even a clear cut 28th overall.
I don’t see Snow moving Danis or MacDonald at the deadline … so the question is … who gets extended for next season? Perhaps both??
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JPinVA says:
Bergenhiem. Signed for next year. I’d rather see him on the team than Hilbert, unless Hilbert can find the box that Sean Hill left behind.
Tambellini. Signed for next year. He’s nice insurance should one of the ice girls have the flu.
Hilbert. It’s time to say goodbye. We can’t continue to have these crushes on guys who play hard but have career high single digit goals…and don’t bring anything to the game physically.
Comrie. It’s probably time for this to end also. Let’s see how Comrie is between Guerin and Bergy (my assumption) I don’t see it. He might be the most valuable at the deadline. and I mean 3rd rounder or an AHL D. If we throw in Duff we might see a second round pick. -
Ryan says:
I kind of have a feeling we won’t see Weight, Guerin or Comrie going anywhere, and all three possibly returning next year, can’t really say the same for Witt. I agree with CB that this will be a quiet deadline for the Islanders
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Matt says:
If Snow trades Bergy it will be yet one more thing to push me from this team. I can almost guarantee feeling the negativeimpact of that trade not long after it happens. Martinek is just starting to find his game again so I don’t think it would be a smart trade especially with the return.
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My board for next year looks like this:
Comeau-Bailey-Okposo
Bergenhiem-Nielsen-Hunter
Joensuu-(Tavares/Park-Mclean
(Tambellini/Sim)-colliton-Jackman
Sutton-Streit
Marty-Witt
Gervais-(Hedman/Meyer/Campoli/Hillen/)
If the board looks like this on July one they will need to spend some cash in the UFA market. Go hard for Komi and the best LW that will sign.
Any word why the low numbers this year for Figren? -
Oh, I forgot, Comrie must go!!!!!!
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bossy22 says:
First, the assets we have are not wanted by other teams…period. Secondly, don’t be so sure that Snow drafts JT if we have the #1 pick. I’m thinking it’s going to be Hedman…..and believe or not, I kind of agree.
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JPinVA. There are many good lLW in free agency. I would love to see the Isles sign a Cole or Gionta. They would fit the system perfectly with their speed. My forward lines would be:
Tavares-Weight-Guerin
Cole-Bailey-Okposo
Bergenheim-Neilsen-Hunter
? -Coliton- JackmanIf the Isles don’t get Tavares, then go after a Gionta to fill in with Weight and Guerin. Cole and Gionta and not guys with huge salaries, and neither of them is over the hill. At 30 they still relatively young and can help with the young guys.
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Boss… I’d be very okay with hedman if we were forced into the second spot. Not that any islander GM has been held accountable under Wang, but not even Snow would be dumb enough to take Hedman over tavares with the first pick. If he was going to do that I’d rather see him trade the first pick to who ever has the second pick and get 2 seconds (this year and next) for the difference.
PLEASE DO NOT STAND ON THE PODIUM AND MAKE ISLANDER FANS BOO….AGAIN!!!! -
I think if you wind up with Hedman or Tavares you’re a winner at the draft. It’s not everyday you find a huge defensemen that can skate like he can
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My board takes into consideration who is signed for next year. comeau is an RFA and on an ascending line. Unfortunately we are going to be paying yashin and most likely DiPietro (at some point not to play hockey). I don’ think the Isles need a $7M payroll in the press box, even if it is the best place for them.
Def on board with Gionta or Cole. -
bystander says:
CB – I am perplexed about how the uncertainty about the Lighthouse affects not necessarily the draft but Snow’s whole approach to building the team. Unpleasant as the thought may be, there’s a pretty good chance the team won’t be here in 2 years. This must have SOME affect on what Snow does or doesn’t do. I maintain we won’t see TRUE rebuilding unless and until the arena is greenlighted. Can you provide some input?
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UIF … that is my point … when I said if Garth signs Guerin, Weight OR a NEW VET … that is whyat I was talking about … that there may possibly be a NEW VET that would get people bent out of shape … the bottom line is Garth has to $pend to meet the cap floor .. and it shouldn’t be construed as him straying away from the kid movement.
wf76 … Bailey is a 19 year old with lots of potential … I like the kid … but if Florida offers up Horton a 2nd rounder 2009 and 3rd rounder 2010 for Bailey and Witt … it is something I have to strongly consider… maybe the deal needs to be tweaked … but I’d trade Bailey if the Isles come up the winner in the trade.
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The Isles are so short on defense that I wouldnt be surprised if they take Hedman.
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would not be surprised or dissapointed if nyi took hedman first overall. there’s your franchise d-man for the next decade. if crazy don waddell has the 2nd pick i hope we hoodwink him into thinking we will take tavares (whom he wants badly) so he sends us a nice package for the 1st pick. we still get hedman plus a bunch of goodies from atlanta.
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Snow needs to be really smart this deadline. If anyone offers good value we should trade anyone. Trade witt, martinek, park, sim, guerin. I would trade as much as possible.
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Dmarie says:
oooh good post! lots of info, some good news and some sad..glad to see who’ll be around and who wont. I’ll be sorry to see some guys go, but mainly because they’re favs of mine, I do however understand the reasons behind some of the moves being made.
As for the injuries..they keep goin an goin..unreal! -
Candyman says:
Taveres v. Hedman
I believe it’s much easier to rebuild an organization around a dynamic forward than it is around a great defenseman. Look at what Crosby, Ovechkin, and even Vinny L have done for their respective teams and what Bouwmeester and Erik Johnson cannot do for theirs. The Isles and their fans need someone, something to get excited about. And frankly, offense is just more exciting than defense. A generational defenseman can carry you for a decade (Lidstrom) but a dynamic forward is better equipped to rescue a floundering franchise.
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Gionta is definately someone I would want, however, shouldnt we be getting bigger and tougher up front? Thats why for me, I wouldnt be upset if Bergy and Hilbert are gone and replaced. Tavares as the #1 if we get him, certainly is not big, so If I were Garth id look to get bigger. Im also on board to trade Comrie, like most of you.
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Johnny Islander says:
100% on siging Hilbert.
We are probably better off resiging Weight anyway, and if so, it probably makes sense to keep Guerin one more year. I doubt that we can upgrade from that this offseason anyway. If we are looking to improve the team, then we should be looking for a winger that will be a good fit alongside Weight and Guerin, instead of Comrie, or Bergy, or whatever else they try to trow at that line to hope sticks.
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From what I’ve read, Tavares is not a “sure thing” as Crosby, Ovechkin…. he is not even projected to be as good as Stamkos. So, there is some merit into looking at Hedman.
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Candyman- I agree with what you say. But the Pens and Caps have done a better job building talent around Crosby and AO. THey have players like Semin and Green. Malkin for the Pens. Just playing some devils advocate.
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mt275- where did you read that. I have heard JT is no Cydney or AO but I hear is better than Stamkos. I am very open to Hedman as well
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Mikey says:
I agree with mt275 above. We can’t compare Tavares to Crosby/Ovechkin/Vinny L. Unlike Tavares, those players are speedy guys who excel in all three zones. We have to remember that the Canadian press is hyping Tavares, but many scouts still have Hedman number one.
Consider this: Hedman is putting up the same number of points this season in the SEL that Kopitar (a forward!) produced in the SEL the year AFTER he was drafted. Scouts will consider Hedman’s ENTIRE body of work this season – not just the WJC.
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JP … like your board … and it’s probably pretty close to probable.
My board for 09-10 players under contract .. doesn’t include trades, draft picks from 09 or RFAs / UFAs yet… this just shows our under contract players for next season.
Forwards..
FA1 – Bailey – Okposo
FA2- Neilsen – FA3
Bergy – Colliton -Hunter
FA4 – FA5 – ParkDepth – Sim, Tamby
Defense ..
Streit – Sutton
Marty – Witt
Freddy IV – CampsDepth- Gervais
As you can see … the Isles are on the hook for 7 defensemen … so not much room to add a FA or Hedmen pending the draft .. so someone HAS to be moved one way or the other to change the D for next season … at forward we have 5 FA’s and one RFA in Thompson (who Gordo has a man crush on) … it almost seems natural to add Tavares to the forward corps if he’s drafted.
A lot of work has to be done to come up with next season’s roster. Don’t envy Garth.
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Jim says:
Candyman – Pittsburgh drafted Whitney, Orpik and Fleury before they got Crosby. And Washington didn’t really emerge into a playoff contender until Mike Green emerged as a stud defenseman. It’s far easier to find a UFA stud forward than it is a stud defenseman.
As some other posters have said, I believe they draft Hedman. And in a perfect world if they have #1, they can trade down to #2 and pick up an extra pick. If the Islanders were only one forward away from contending, then I’d say take Tavares. But they are more than likely a top 5 pick next year and Taylor Hall and Kiril Kabanov will be available to fill their forward needs.
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Macch…you’re 100% right…give KO a great center and maybe we already solved that problem internally…I always go back to Hilbert…remember when he played with Crosby and he looked like a 30 goal scorer?…if a great center can make stone-hands Hilbert a goal scorer, think about what someone like a Tavares could do for KO…
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Everywhere I see people comparing what they read about a player to what someone else read about a player. Once in a while theres someone who has studied you tube clips or even (gasp!) watched a game or wven TWO *faint* with any of these guys.
Now Im not saying its worthless or anything like that but I think its a real mistake to put that much stock into what you read about a player. It really doesnt tell you as much as you might think. Teams pay scouts that watch these players and they know plenty about them… but they hold their cards close because there is no point in telling the world what they pay their own scouts to figure out. See what Im saying?
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In response to post 78, it would be shortsighted to draft a player simply to fill holes in next season’s lineup. You draft a player with an eye to the future. Who can have the biggest impact on the team during the next 7-10 years? That is the question our scouts should ask. If the scouts conclude that Hedman is the man, they can always move some bodies from the blueline to get help up front
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Mikey – Remember Tavares missed the 08 draft by a month (or something like it) because of his birthday. So, there was a lot written about where Tavares would rank in the 08 draft… Do a search on TSN, and you will find articles about it.
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kevin fitz says:
JPinVA (62): You are right, Garth is not DUMB enough to take Hedman over Taveres with the first pick. But he is SMART enough to do it.
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Jim, and so my response to that is the Islanders’ top priority is not to follow any sort of protocol on how to build a Stanley Cup contender right now. At least it shouldn’t be. The Isles are drowning in a sea of NHL teams that have not bothered to toss a life buoy. Their top priority should be to regain some interest and relevance in the NHL. Goal scoring sells.
Regardless, I’m not sure what difference it makes what order you draft in. Does it really matter if you draft a defenseman first, then a goalie, then go for the dynamic forward? Like I said, goal scoring sells, goal scoring is relevant, and that’s the direction I’d take this team.
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And we already have the goalie. Well I don’t know about THE goalie, but we sure do have a goalie. For a long long time.
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81 Chris TMC- I only read what people say about them because I cant watch JT or Hedman. I would love to watch them on TV or in person, but I dont konw of any packages that cover OHL or SEL games
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Candyman – you regain interest and relevance by building a consistent winner. Stanley Cups and Conference Finals appearances sell tickets. The Thrashers and Jackets have had a goal scoring machine(Kovalchuk, Nash) for quite a few years now, but they have been stuck in obscurity.
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So basically there will be no quick turn around no matter who we draft. JT or Hedman. There is still A LOT of work to be done with this team.
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You got it Macch!! … Nor Tavares Nor Hedman will make the Isles a contender next year.
That brings up a good point … which one would help the most in the longer term.
Candy brings up the point to which I agree … goal scoring sells … and Mikey brings up another good point … winning and going to conference championships and Stanley Cup finals sells more ..
So how do we get there?? Neither Hedman or Taveres do it on their own.
Someone else brought up a great point … assuming the Isles get the #1 overall pick …. do the Isles trade down one spot and try to score more from the #2 team??? Doubt the #2 team would bite.
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87 Macch: I understand completely… thats the spot that most of us are in! I am just saying that we need to remember that our very limited amount of knowledge about these players does NOT make us experts on any of these kids. None of us have enough information to make truly informed judgments about them, or to question the judgments of others who know far more than we do. I am not talking about you spoecifically, I am just saying that far too many fans seem to think that they can read a few measley scouting reports and suddenly they know more than everyone and can profess who is worth what and who should go when. Ive seen fans put up thousand word diatribes comparing players that they have never even watched play before.Its laughable.
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James says:
Losing Weight is pretty brutal. He likely would have netted the highest return. Now, maybe Witt and/or Comrie, but beyond that I don’t see anyone being sent packing for much in return.
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Personally, I think it’s a bad move if they don’t take Tavares…if we assume they both meet their expectations and develop into what they’re projected to be going by what we’ve all read. That being the case, I’d take a true number 1 center over any other position in the league. When was the last time we actually had one of those…Turgeon? Before that, LaFontaine, and Trottier? That’s it, really. A lot of stuff just falls into place when you have that number one center. It’s not everything, but it’s a lot.
Would you guys take Turgeon in his prime or Chara, given the choice? If those aren’t fair projections for what either guy is SUPPOSED TO develop into, then feel free to throw out some other names for comparison.
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Macch @ 89 – Exactly!
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How about this scenario: Isles win draft lottery -Leafs get #3. Leafs offer Schenn to switch spots
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UIF – How many cups did we win with Lafontaine and Turgeon? And I would argue that Smith and Potvin were more vital to the Isles dynasty than Trottier (and I am by no means putting down Trottier, he is an all time great). Goaltending and Defense wins championships, bottom line (Devils anybody?). Hedman Hedman Hedman.
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Joey303 – I highly doubt that will ever happen. I wouldnt mind it though
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Kevin fitz – Really? How many cups has Chara won with anyone? Ray Bourque couldn’t lead Boston to a cup and had to be traded to a stacked team to get one…you can make that argument with many, many stud centers or defensemen.
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Speaking of. TSN has their midseason prospect ranking for the draft. I find it very helpful and entertaining
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Joey … that is something to consider .. TO would never do it … but if they did … you have Schenn & the Duch in TavHeDuch … consider it throughly before pulling the trigger though.
Kevin .. one can argue … there is no Dynasty without any one of the corner stones to the Isles … you can’t compare Trotts with Potsy … but I’ll argue there is no Dynasty without either one of ‘em.
Trotts … all time leading scorer and best 2 way defender Isles ever seen …
Potvin … all time leading defence scorer and best 2 way shut down defender.
Edge to Trotts winning the Conn Smythe in 1980 for MVP of Playoffs. That is just my biased opinion.
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toorude says:
this is a comment section on a blog – we are not professional scouts. If people are passionate about their opinions or others opinions, thats OK. We are exchanging ideas here – I guarentee – NO ONE here is dead right or wrong about their assessments, even CB. So just relax.
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I’ll say it again this team is not that bad…..32 losses…23 by one goal/ENgoal, 9 by 2 or more and 6 OT losses. DP probably wins a bunch of those games(5-6). We’re not that far off from a winning team!!! All this doom and gloom talk is starting to sound like our new president!
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I don’t want to sound like I’m knocking defense at all either…having a stud D is huge, I agree. I just think a true number one d-man is a bit easier to come by via trade, free agency, etc. than a TRUE number one center – one who can score, be a playmaker, and come back and be responsible on D, and can control a game at any moment (and I’m not saying Tavares is that – just strictly talking #1 center vs #1 D). I think a real center just solves so many problems on any team. How many are there realistically in the league now? The teams that have one are very lucky, and they rarely hit the market.
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Touche UIF #105
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Let’s just say that Tavares and Hedman have the same upside at their respective positions and are both annual all-nhl first teamers. Here’s why i would take Tavares.
1. Garth can snub canada again and hold back their #1 center for the WJC.
2. The coliseum needs a little flash. Let’s face it, there hasn’t been WOW-factor since ziggy left… not consistently. KO is getting there. If snow was going to go for Hedman, he should have taken Filatov.
3. Tavares, under Quinn, proved he could play a finish-every-check physical style…as well as create space.
4. Hedman hasn’t proven to ANYBODY that he can survive the physicality of the NHL. Give me a year in canadien juniors, the AHL or on a winterized tennis court in Bay Ridge… then I’ll trust that he’s not going to start pulling hair the first time somebody elbows him in the honker.
5. and maybe the most important. In 2009-10 Streit, Sutton and Witt account for $10M, 2010-11 that drops to $7M. They need to drop a load on a first line offensive threat.
THAT is why when Bettman says, “With the first pick… the NYI take from Ornskoldsvik…” the very few hairs I have left will start loosening from their base. -
Hock says:
For 2009-2010:
Signing Weight depends upon getting Tavares and if he can make the jump immediately to the NHL. If we get Tavares, then along with Bailey , Neilson, Park and for depth, either Thompson, Walter, Colliton, McLean, we are covered.
At RW, we have Okposo, Tambellini/Iggulden?, Hunter, Jackman. If we giving up on the Tambellini project and Iggulden cannot step in, then we need to keep Guerin.
At LW, we have Comeau, Bergenhein, Joensuu, Hilbert. I see no need for Comrie, unless we can upgrade via trade.
I say Comrie definitely goes. Weight & Guerin are dependent upon the draft. If we go with Hedman, they have a better chance of staying.
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We have to remember where Taveres is from… CANADA…. all Canadian players are hyped up because that is the culture in the hockey world. Canadians automatically think their players are better than anyone else’s in the world. That is why Crosby got so hyped and Malkin and Ovechkin were not heard about until they were drafted. That shows you how good Hedman must be if the Canadian press has been talking about him for almost 2 years. Hedman Hedman Hedman!
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But this is still all a long ways away….this discussion presumes the Isles (1) finish last in the league, (2) and then win the lottery, or (3) finish higher than last and still win the lottery.
Who stays and who goes at the deadline? The vote from Candyland is to get rid of Comrie ASAP for AMAP (as much as possible). Meaning, he has to go, regardless if we cannot get what we think he is worth. Guerin could probably be the most useful on the Rangers (who might have more goal scoring problems than our pathetic core). Would anyone here be opposed to sending Guerin to the Rags? What would it take for us to do that? The return we would get for guys like Hilber/Park etc. just doesnt make it worth giving those guys up. Sell Witt for a 2R pick or better, but nothing less.
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It’s not productive to argue about Tavares vs. Hedman. I prefer Tavares but I just hope the current standings hold so we’re guaranteed 1 of them.
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kevin fitz – Last post, as I’m sure I’m over my limit. But in the scenario you just put forth, then I agree with you. If one is truly the real deal and the other is just (or mostly) hype, then obviously go with the real deal.
In a world where we can see the future and both develop into true number ones, then I’d still go with the center.
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UIF – we will agree to disagree. I prefer Hedman, but I would not be upset with Taveres.
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Isles4cups says:
19 ISLE in NJ 22 (#50) – Are you related to Mike Milbury by chance? The Islanders just drafted Bailey 7 months ago, and here you are saying that he is expendable for a generous offer?
Isles1972 (#61) Insert Travis Moen on the LW.
I will go out on a limb and say that Garth Snow will without a doubt pick John Tavares if the Islanders have the 1st overall pick next June.
Comrie, Hilbert and Jackman are all UFA’s next year. The only one I’d resign would be Jackman. If the other two can’t be traded, let them walk along with Sillinger, Fritz and Pock. -
I am on the fence as far as Snow the GM goes. Like the way he manages the cap, his FA signings are getting better, and he does a good job of stockpiling draft picks. His last draft was a good one.
The bad he failed to recognize glaring deficines in this team for three years.
His trades for players haven’t worked out at all, not one.
Seems to sit on his hands a bit too much.If he trades a guy like Bergenheim and keeps some of the rest then we know he just doesn’t get it and it is time to move on.
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Tom says:
It’s unfortunate but CB I think your right with these assesments.
As far as Bergenheim is concerned, does anyone think his time in Europe hurt his development?
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JPinVA – And you feel that if Garth would snub Canada of Tavares that the Canadian Junior team wouldn’t win Gold? Nice try!
kevin fitz (#108)”No surprise that Ovechkin, a forward with Moscow Dynamo, is the top-ranked European skater. Scouts have been raving about him for a couple of years.”Thursday January 15, 2004. What a ridiculous comment you made about Canadian born players and the Canadian people in general.
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I have been back and forth with who I would want the Isles to choose if they get the #1 pick. I feel that in the end, you defintely have to go the stud defencman.
How many stud defenceman can you say are really in the league? When you have a chance to get that stud you do it. Why are so many people here wanting Komisarek or Bouwmeester? Players like that don’t grow on trees. Finding scoring is much easier. Who knows , maybe the money July 1 goes to Gaborik (long shot but maybe).
If this team rebuilds its defence and through free agency (i.e Cole, Gionta), signs scorers, I think this rebuild could be a little faster than many think. -
Nick classic with comment 34, “inflamed and unreasonable fanbase”. The club is lucky to have a fan base, period. We all know your stance with Wang and Snow job but give me a break the two of them have done nothing to bring respect or warrant respect from fans. So far I’m willing to give Snow a chance to see how this draft pans out but I have to wonder why you make it seem like the fans are to blame here when it is our wacky owner and back up goalie GM. Not just with this comment because I understand it isn’t a direct jab but with others you have made. Once again this team is LUCKY to have anyone paying attention to them because in all honesty they don’t deserve it.
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Isles, you missed the point of my US sarcasm.
Tom, Why was it good for his development, and not good for Bailey (who would have gone back to Windsor)? I’m not a pro scout, but he looked pretty much the same when he played for Stirling and Shaw. The Isles did the same thing to Figren. I think it has more to do with $$$ than their development. If it was development alone it should have been in the AHL.
Just my opinon. -
Matt (118) I feel your pain dude. I was and to a certain degree STILL very much a pom-pom waving, “Islanders are THE BEST!” type fan, but the 3 headed monster of Charlie, Snow Job & Flash “Wins & losses don’t matter” Gordon have A LOT to prove. A LOT. They’ve accomplished NOTHING. They’ve given fans NO REASON whatsoever to believe they can accomplish ANYTHING. Charlie is a nut case, a complete goof ball. Snow? He’s just a mess right now. He’s buying time until he figures things out. He’s playing with the big boys now & he’s scared. He’s dug a hole, a cozy place to hide & has jumped in & is praying for deep drafts…VERY deep drafts. He’ll crawl out from his hole in June & draft Tavares & then tell everyone what a good GM he is. Flash? He’s a lost cause. I can rattle off 5-6 Islander players that think his system is stupidity on ice.
Can things change? Yes. Any positive conjecture beyond that, is blind faith. I’m playing the odds. Right NOW, the odds of Charlie, Snow Job or Flash accomplishing anything of worth in the NHL is slim. Odds can change though.
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sorry isles4cups, i calls em as i sees em. Canadian players always get hyped more than other countries players. Canadians have a complex about hockey. They think they have the best players in the world and if someone doesn’t agree than they are an idiot. Sorry if you are Canadian and are offended by that. But it’s the truth.
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4195mary says:
Question: Has anyone noticed how Chris Higgins excels against the Isles? Has anyone noticed he doesn’t seem to fit in in Montreal? Bet we could get him rather cheap. He really is a quality player.
ur right about that hunter picture. thats a jersey u can be proud to put on. not that rec league bush league jersey they are wearing now.