WILLETS POINT BLANK? The New York Daily Blues continues its NYI-To-Queens series. All right by us.
All those images of Citi Field could make an NHL team owner without a development deal salivate. Today’s story from Nick Hershon of the Daily News may not, uh, break much ground, but Charles Wang does not rule out joining the Wilpons in Queens if Nassau and the TOH don’t meet the timeline.
By the way, no matter the location, is it really too much to ask for the Islanders and their fans to get a brand-new rink instead of a renovated very old building? The offseason reno plan never moved me, nor can I picture SMG loving it (“Sorry Bruce, sorry Britney, no concert. We’re re-doing the floors”!). Finally – if you’re keeping score – yes, the Daily News has now done more stories on the Islanders franchise moving to Queens than they’ve done this season on the Islanders hockey team. Deal with it, Pete Botte.
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68 Responses to WILLETS POINT BLANK? The New York Daily Blues continues its NYI-To-Queens series. All right by us.
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1) Do the Rangers have any say so on whether the team can move into their sphere? Yes, its geographicly part of LI, but its also NYC.
2) Sounds like a great idea though. Probably betetr public transpotation options to Queens. -
How much do you wanna bet the Daily News goes under or online only before the deal gets done or they move to Queens?!
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Ed J says:
lol, will the drama ever end?????
Hey CB you think after this so-called deadline that Wang issued and all this talk of Queens, if you were a betting man on this Isles going what are the odds you would give??? ( this being the lighthouse is shot down )
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JP39 says:
Although the main focus is clearly to get the Lighthouse Project approved and going ASAP, I’d take Queens in a heartbeat over the alternative(s). If it came down to it and Queens is where we end up, it wouldn’t be so bad at all. In fact, having brand new Citi Field and a new state of the art arena for the Isles in close proximity to each other would be pretty sweet, especially when you think about how convenient mass trasnportation would probably be to that whole area. Just a thought, although the Lighthouse is absolutely the way to go. Let’s get it done!!
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Pat says:
So Wang does not know where the team is going to be – yet – I have till April 30th to decide to accept the offer they are making to me as a season ticket holder for 2 years *after* this coming season – which I have already paid for ???
Doesn’t seem right.
Pat
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Mike from Philly says:
Get it done in Queens!
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d-man says:
as long as the isles stay on the mass of land that is long island AND SMG gets screwed i’ll be happy
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pat… wang is offering you a deal early to renew and save money… you don’t have to do it and you aren’t penalized for next season. a move to queens wouldn’t change anything… there’s not even a building there. less whining from isles fans would be awesome
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kevin fitz says:
It makes me feel better knowing that if the LH doesn’t get done than they will most likely be staying in NY.
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Yashin for President says:
Just look at Philly and their setup. Its amazing how other cities wouldnt follow that model.. It makes so much sense if the there is the right amount of property..
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Willis says:
Did you say you had a Jack Hillen story CB?
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Fauxrumors (2): The Islanders already paid a one-time fee to the Rangers back when they first came to exist. they could in theory set up shop across the street if they wanted to, the Rangers have absolutely no say NHL-wise in where the Isles reside.
As far as this article goes, I am happy with Charles Wangs response. He is continuing to make the LHP his priority but not closing any doors to this team staying in NY another way. That is what I want so I really am happy with that.
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Pete M says:
If the lighthouse gets shot down my next choice would obviously be Queens rather than Kansas City. My only concern with the Queens location, however is the Dolans. I find it hard to believe that they would sit idly by and allow a competing arena to be built in New York City. Its one thing to have the Coliseum 50 miles away serving a somewhat different community- besides, it was there before they bought the Garden – not much choice. But I don’t see them being happy about another building a dozen subway stops away. And its not the fact that the Islanders would be playing there, its the other 325 days in the year when concerts, shows and other events will be held. Are these acts going to play two arenas in New York? Seems to me they would be in direct competition to land them, just like the upper west side stadium/convention center would have been. And we all saw how they went after that project. I feel that they will do what ever they need to do to stop it.
And its also really no surprise that this issue is receiving more ink in the Daily News than in Newsday is it?
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Brooks Simpson says:
I think Wang should simply say that if the ToH doesn’t want the Lighthouse, he’ll move to Queens … and the league will tell the Rangers to shut up, because it’s for the good of the league, etc., it’s not really a move outside the Isles’ area, etc. (in short, a “whatever” answer).
Islanders fans will be happy (given the alternative of losing the team, period) and Kate Murray will be left trying to explain how she let this one get away. Then they’ll start calling the decaying NVMC “Murray’s Tomb” or “Murray’s Mausoleum.”
You can’t always get what you want … but if you try sometimes well you might find you get what you need.
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Jim says:
Simpson, Doh! and we can all vote her and the other TOH cronies out of office for being so short sighted…
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Dan says:
“The offseason reno plan never moved me, nor can I picture SMG loving it”
I thought the same thing…the only real benefit is the site lines, which may change anyway due to the new boxes.
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Brett says:
You are a man of your word CB. on 3/27 you said that was the last Lighthouse story for a few days and here you are exactly a few days later with your next Lighthouseish post. The whirlpool just sucks you right in, doesn’t it?
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Green 19 says:
My ideal scenario would have the Isles play in a new arena w/o smg in Queens and have the Lighthouse go forward w/ a reduced capacity renovated coliseum (could include Isle’s AHL team and would reduce traffic concerns). In regards to the Lighthouse as is, I have always felt cheated that the Isles would play in a renovated building, not a new one, and still have smg in the picture.
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Akeem says:
Eric (3),
The DN will not go broke or online anytime soon. It is, relatively speaking, a low budget newspaper whose readership and advertising clientel aren’t the New York elite. It didnt purchase a huge midtown Manhattan skyscraper that it can’t pay for, a la the NY Times. The paper is not grossly mismanaged like the Times is. Not every paper is in dire straights – the WSJ is doing quite well, actually… -
Jim (GFIC) says:
1) Pete M- you make a great point.
2) I remember last year when Chris Russo (when interviewing Wang) was incredulous about the renovating during the off-season plan. I think he’s dead right. I simply don’t buy that the Isles are going to get the state of the art building they deserve during 2 summers of “renovation”.
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-Big Van Vader says:
I always was 50/50 on the renovation of the building. On one hand, I can see that keeping the sightlines is a great thing. Making a building such as the cavernous Prudential center, (while a beautiful arena) is not too enticing an idea. And Wang has said on numerous occasions that the inside of the Coliseum would be completely gutted. On the other hand, why CAN’T they build a new arena?? Wang conversely, has said, “Where do we put all the concrete if we junk it?” I don’t know Chuck, where does everybody ELSE put it?
-D
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Michael says:
Too bad about the Dolans. It’s a free market economy, and like TMC said above, The Rangers have absolutely no control over what Wang does. Queens is part of LONG ISLAND, and should Dolan cause a scene – that will and should be proved under the geographic law. So the Dolans can go back to the drawing board while we build our empire.
How many of you are excited to see us Byzantine this area, hockey wise? The Rangers are going to be our little beotches for a long time.
BUILD SNOW, BUILD IT.
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isles fan says:
Islanders already paid territorial fees to Rangers in the 70′s. Isles can move anywhere within 50 miles of the NVMC.
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Its got nothing to do with territorial fees, or even hockey for that matter. Its a question of how they will bankroll any attempt to stop the construction of an arena that will be used for much more than hockey. They were a large part of the reason the new Jets Manhattan stadium got killed. Why do you think that was? There was no hockey connection there. They will back the owners of those Willets Point businesses and all the Queens NIMBY’s.
My point is just because some people in Queens think its a good idea, and its certainly a better alternative for Islander fans than Kansas City, it will not be the slam dunk that people seem to think it will be. Steinbrenner is gone. The Dolans are the new evil empire.
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To all people concerned that the Dolan’s do not want another building in the city need to calm down. There are plenty of bands and comics and shows etc. that want to play in NY that there can be 2 buildings. Both will have a full schedules and there are plenty of people to fill both venues. That is not going to be an issue.
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Fist of Gillies says:
The more I learn about the LH Project, the more I think Queens *could* be a superior alternative.
A hub without direct rail link is not a hub. It’s just another development lacking proper infrastructure, but more importantly, a realistic transportation plan.
I think I’m secretly wishing that the team, town and county compromise on a greatly scaled down version of the plan on the table.
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HilbertSnipe says:
I agree w/ Kevin Fitz (26). Although the Lighthouse is what I really am pushing for, it is becoming more clear to me that Queens may be the most convenient and more sensible option. This, of course, is based off the access of mass transit. People do not realize how big of an issue it truly is. The Queens arena would be in a metropolis, and could very well benefit from being in such close proximity to Citi Field. The question is, however, would Charles Wang deeply consider Queens if he was not allowed to build housing developments and a grand ole shopping mall right next door?
But as feasible and intriguing Queens would be, I am glad that Wang’s ultimate priority is to get the Lighthouse done & I think Islander fans should absolutely still make it their first priority too.
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So why did they help to fight the Upper West Side stadium? Why spend the money?
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Because it is in Manhattan, two blocks away from the MSG. They did not fight against Brooklyn project.
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Because it was right across the street more or less. madison square garden is still going to be the top arena because it is in Manhattan. A queens arena will always be secondary.
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Citi is also attractive because of the parking. Having the Citi Field lots available would make it ridiculously easy to get in and out of Islander games.
I’m afraid of what getting to the NCVM might look like if the current plan is approved as is. The lots are packed on sell outs now. A few underground garages and encouraging people to take a 20 minute bus from mineola is not a solution.
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Don't Mind the Haters says:
Pat (Post#6) – Isles will play at NVMC until 2015 or whenever the lease ends.
They have stated they will not renew the lease.
Wang needs to have a deadline in order to make alternate plans (assuming one of the options is building a new arena).
The Queens option has no effect on the 2 year seasons ticket plan.
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I too was baffled when Suozzi said at the Marriot meeting that he was backing a “bus ride” of about 18 minutes as the mass transit solution for the Lighthouse project. Part of me, who was there supporting the project vigorously, wanted to yell out “What the F?!?!?” This should have TWO solutions for mass transit, and a LAME bus is NOT either of them. One, a light rail like people have been proposing for the area for YEARS. Two, a spur of the Long Island railroad. Why the heck does Garden City get to cry and say, “No we don’t want the railroad going through our town”? They should be told that they HAVE to take it, just like the rest of us. Pisses me off.
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34 – Can you imagine the chaos post-game as people crush each other to get into a bus? First stop: Roosevelt Field!
It’s absurd.
The only way this LH vision works is with an extention of the Hempstead Line right to the center of the development. And since that’s not happening, I cannot see this project getting approved – as is – by the ToH. Not a chance. And I have to say, I don’t disagree with the stance.
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Gillies #32 – According to the plans, they have created over 3k more parking spaces than what currently exist. The only problems is that they are scattered in difference sections. The closer spots will command more $$$ as opposed to spots that will be located across the street. I talked to the main parking guy at the meeting, he knew his stuff and does have a decent plan in place for parking. He also mentions that he believes that parking will somehow be incorporated in the ticket pricing, but that was his guess, not official. There will also be electronic signs that will give you advance warning what lots are already full or not
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Richie — I hope you’re right, but it just doesn’t seem possible without expanding the footprint of the property.
But assuming they did build four or five level parking garages, getting in is one thing – getting out and onto the parkway is another.
I wish I could have made it to the event to speak with the guy. Does anyone have contact info?
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bergie20 says:
the daily news article says that the city is sending out letters to developers for willets point this year. the developers get 2 months to respond. wang’s deadline for the lighthouse project is october. coincidence? i doubt it. i wouldn’t be surprised at all if we wound up in queens.
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blitz says:
re: refurb building. Hopefully, keeping the camera angle the same is part of this deal.
If the arena gets redone, then the camera angles better not turn into DAL, DET, and CHI where those on TV are watching 65% hockey and 35% fans heads.
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nystrom23 says:
In reality queens is a 10 times better option for everyone especially if they isles can get a start of the art building done and dont have to wait god knows how long to have it approved.
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I’m sure, the referbishing of the Coliseum, will be done State Of Art, just like the rest of the Project. Charles Wang, would have it, no other way. The NY Islander’s belong where they are, not in Queens, and certainly not in KC. “Go Islander’s”, Mark/NJ
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art says:
With the Brooklyn deal with the Nets very much NOT a done deal Ratner might join with Wang in a totally rebuilt NCVC or the one in Queens and forget about the LH. Remember the ABL Nets?
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themass says:
I’m worried about the sight lines of a refurbished coliseum. Aren’t they planning on dropping the ice surface like 10ft? That has to affect the angle for the seats…right?
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Paul in Canada says:
I think once the Coliseum is refurbished it will be state of the art. Wang doesn’t strike me as a guy who would skimp on amenities if its just a matter of cash. I thought rebuilding the Coliseum – as opposed to building a new arena – had to do with minimizing the environmental impacts in terms of the report. It makes it easier to get it done that way but, in reality, its a complete overhaul. I like the idea of what they’ve proposed in terms excavating to create space, etc.
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Schultz39 says:
How about Wang throwing his Wangbucks together with Ratnerbucks and building a SWEET facility in Queens where neither has to deal with the issues they are dealing with in Brooklyn and TOH.
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Gary says:
Dman (#9) – Pat (#6) is right. He isn’t whining and you’re spouting the team line. I told my rep the same thing. I feel that this is a grab to get to hold your money way ahead of time. I already told my rep, that if they don’t allow us the same deal after we have a few months into next season (to see how the team looks), then I will give up my seats. Considering that the team is giving you the deadline and starting the payments before you’re done paying the current 2 year plan, I don’t think I’m alone in this. This is not whining, this is anger.
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Mikey says:
NYC originally wanted to release the RFP this spring, but I can see them delaying it until Wang is ready in October. If ToH is blocking the project in October, Wang can put in a bid for the Willet’s point development at that time.
Ratner’s lease for the Nets at the Meadowlands runs through the 2012-2013 season. It makes sense for him to team up with Wang on a Willet’s Point project. NYC can finish purchasing the land, clean up the area and then lease the land to Wang/Ratner for development. It would be a profitable enterprise with Islanders/Nets/Mets/concerts/tennis attracting patrons to the area throughout the year. The value of the Isles would skyrocket, and Wang would still get to keep the cable deal. This could be a great backup plan for him.
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The LH should be the backup plan to Queens.
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mattyboy says:
The day any isles fan, owner or team sponsored blogger can honestly tell me that what SMG will “love” should be a factor in ANYTHING is the day I eat my orange bow tie.
Maybe we should poll Charles Manson and Bernie Madoff on what they would “love” as well.
I can live without the lone July Busta Rhymes concert Chris. So can SMG. As a matter of fact I always kind of hoped that the milli-second the LH was approved SMG would be bought out and gone FOREVER. But as always, there must be something we don’t know because the why , how and WHY WHY WHY of the worst lease in the NHL is barely ever given the press it should get.
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islesfan says:
I don’t understand all the raves about Queens having such great mass transit options. Have you taken the LIRR to Woodside and then BACKTRACKED to Shea??
It’s not that great.
Also, if you have a family of 4 coming from anywhere East of Queens, are you really going to pay 4 LIRR tickets, or are you gonna drive.
We are Long Islanders and love our cars.
Remember also the Isles games are in WINTER and Mets games are summer.
Who’s going to want to wait on the platform for the train or subway when it’s 10 degrees and windy ?
Not me.
So, for everyone praising the #7 and the LIRR, think twice.#43, themass.
I think I read that the ice would be lowered only 5 feet, and then the ring of club or “skyboxes” would follow after the 10th or 15th row. Lowest in the NHL.
Not sure it will affect the upper level, but lower level will change somewhat.What everyone who is pushing for Queens needs to remember, is that we would still have to go through much of what is occurring today with the TOH and the SEQR (environmental review), which is New York state mandated.
I don’t think it’s a slam dunk even in Queens with the eminent domain issues of the body shops, etc.
Granted, a “new” arena sounds great, but if you look at the plans for the LH, you won’t even recognize the NVMC. It will be like a new building, HUGE concourses, and new everything.
Go to the LH site, lighthouseli.com
and click on the DGEIS box under FAQ on left.
There is an amazing amount of info including blue prints and hundreds of pages of information. -
Sorry for the crazy long post CB.
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ALL ISLANDER FANS REVOLT!!! says:
I’m so glad to hear this from Mr. Wang…This is a relief to know at least hes open to the concept…
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Gary #46.
I spoke to a rep the other day that told me that if we agree to extend by April 30th, that they would not start charging us the new installments until the first ones are done.
He said they had gotten a lot of complaints.
I was upset when I first opened the mail. but now realize that we don’t HAVE to extend, it’s up to US.
I’m sure they will come up with something else before the beginning of next season, and of course after the 09-10 season.Just realize that not many other teams are giving away free parking ($287),the 1st two rounds of the playoffs (granted this may be worthless but could be big bucks) and a price freeze of our already deep discounted tkts. till 2012.
Like I said, it’s OUR call.
Extend, and take advantage of the current offer, or wait and take your chances.
It’s totally up to YOU. -
DPS says:
Queens blows the lighthouse out of the water anyway. huge increase in fan base potential. make it happen
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John R. says:
There are around 9 MILLION people living in NYC. I don’t think the Islanders moving to Queens would have Dolan too worried. Shea stadium books just as much as Yankkee stadium (non-games events) so I don’t really see the point some posters are trying to make.
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jonw says:
chris tmc#13,The Rangers will not be the problem with the Isles moving,it’s the NHL’s concern.Not sure how far your hockey knowlegde goes back,but if you recall the Hartford Whalers major problem was ther proximity to the Rangers and the Bruins.One of the major reasons outside of being unable to get a commintment to getting a new arena was maintaing a fan base with two original six being so close.
There is no doubt that Isles fans will of a sudden turn to the Rangers or Devils if the LHP falls through.The problem will be the commitment of Long Island based fans and wether or not you can pre detemine how far they are willing to travel. -
I would travel to Queens for any game. Especially because mass transit would be ACCESSIBLE.
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25yearfan says:
Great news!!! Kate Murray approves….
Innovative…
New…
Development…
in grass and weed control — big story in today’s Newsday about the use of 5 cute little goats to control grass & weeds — money quotes from Supervisor Murray:
“We’ll let them eat to their hearts’ content,” said Town Supervisor Kate Murray. “Basically, they’re going to be our natural lawn mowers.”
…
(hoping there may be more goats in Nassau’s future)
“We figure with one boy and four girls, nature might take its course,” Murray said.Priorities, people, priorities.
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jonw (56): The Hartford Whalers major problem was that they played in a strip mall and more than anyting else, never winning anything in the NHL. No offense to them, but it really is the truth.
I have no doubt that you are completely wrong and Isles fans will NOT suddenly turn into Rangers or Devils(?) fans if the team relocates 15-20 miles away. Your idea that Isles fans are so fickle and lame is an insult to every fan this organiztion has!
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sorry chris #59,what I meant to write was I have no doubt that fans will NOT all of a sudden become Rangers or Devils fans.
There is no question of lolaty to Isles fans on my behalf.My point was The NHL and specifically Gary Bettman would rather see Either of 2 things first.One would be the LHP approved and the other would be to keep them in L.I.I can’t speek for what they are thinking,nor can i say for sure that queens would be the answer so determing a travel distance would be something I would not do.Like I said.One of the Whalers problems along with not getting a commintment on a new arena,was the proximity to other franchises ie. location.The new NHl would do everything then can to help prevent something like that from happening again. -
This whole accessibility of mass transit line is a bit overstated. If you’re coming from Long Island and live anywhere other than near the Port Washington line you have to take the LIRR into Woodside, then take the #7 Train back east. That’s an hour or hour and 15 minute trip to or from Hicksville. And from further east its obviously even longer.
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TM says:
Can we please end the BS already. The Isles belong in Queens NOT LI.!!!! Get it done!! Isles in Uniondale means the meadia and fans ignore them. Isles in Queens means the NY media and more fans give them the attention they desreve. W e tried it on LI and in TOH/Uniondale and it hasn’t worked so move on already. What indeed is the holdup? Sports in 2009 and beyond doesn’t work in suburbs. Move them to NYC Queens so they don’t get ignored like the greatest hockey dynasty ever did on LI asnd like a good team in NJ does now. It’s not even debateable.
Come on, move the Isles to Queens as it’ bext for everyone!!!!!!! -
Queens makes too much sense for it to happen for the Isles. It’s a dream only b/c it should be reality. We live in a bizarro world with this organization.
I still keep telling myself that it’s going to happen, though. Probably why I’m an Isles fan.
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60 jonw (60): You know I could not believe that an Isles fan was making that case! Its a relief to know that you werent saying that.
In light of your corrected post, I agree with you. I think that the NHL would prefer the Isles move to Queens rather than face the alternative of leaving this area, but certainly not OVER staying in LI. It seems to me they know things would be best if the Isles stayed right where they are!
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Steve K. says:
Kate Murray is more concerned with dwarf goats eating grass in Merrick. No… I’m serious: http://www.newsday.com/news/local/nassau/ny-ligoat3112600892mar31,0,3244656.story
She’s smart because those rubes will vote for her. -
SteveK- Amazingly Ive seen a lot of people complaining about this, but I think it is a good nice idea. Why in the world would Isles fans and lighthouse advocates have a problem with this??? It has absolutely nothing to do with the LH project.
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Transportation/parking issues are not overstated IMHO.
Mass transit provides options for people both east and west. Working in the city, weeknight games are a non-starter for LIRR commuters. An arena in Queens solves that issue.
And if you are driving from Nassau or Suffolk, ample parking already in place.
It’s a win-win no matter how you travel to the game.
Everyone drives to the NVMC because it’s the only way to get there. And that will be the same situation if t LH project is developed.
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Chris TMC: the reason people are upset over it is because although its a nice family public relations idea, is the Nassau economy is in the gutter and on her desk sits the potential centerpiece of this county but she is spending her afternoon feeding goats. Shes simply doing this at the wrong time, maybe if she showed up to the meeting at the Marriot she would be given less scrutiny.
Honestly, I forgot the Daily News even existed….and I live in Queens.