Comments on: DEFUSING THE DATSYUK/ZETTERBERG ARGUMENTNo, it’s not easy drafting skill in the later rounds http://www.islanderspointblank.com/2009/04/diffusing-the-datsyukzetterberg-argumentno-its-not-easy-drafting-skill-in-the-later-rounds/ Independent, Daily Coverage Of The New York Islanders Wed, 17 Mar 2010 01:42:34 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.1 By: Mike Gould http://www.islanderspointblank.com/2009/04/diffusing-the-datsyukzetterberg-argumentno-its-not-easy-drafting-skill-in-the-later-rounds/#comment-59519 Mike Gould Tue, 28 Apr 2009 05:46:04 +0000 http://www.islanderspointblank.com/?p=10738#comment-59519 Ah, ok you make a pretty good point, but its not completely accurate. For one thing if you go back one more year to 1994 you can add Thomas Holmstrom to your list of late round draft picks (no. 257 1994 draft), who definately is, in your words, a "B list" player. Also, you missed young Johnathon Ericsson who is now taking a regular shift in the playoffs and could well be the next Wing All Star caliber player. He just happened to be the LAST player taken in the 2002 draft. Also, and you mentioned this only in passing, that the Wings have added to the club by all means, but failed to give details. Which are that they have added quality players no one else apprently wanted including Maltby, Draper, Lebda and Cleary. All B players as you say, although I would argue that Draper should be rated at least a B plus. So, all toll to include Quincy and Helms, that's ten players off the current twenty man roster the Wings aquired that no one else apparently had the brains to want. Ah, ok you make a pretty good point, but its not completely accurate. For one thing if you go back one more year to 1994 you can add Thomas Holmstrom to your list of late round draft picks (no. 257 1994 draft), who definately is, in your words, a “B list” player. Also, you missed young Johnathon Ericsson who is now taking a regular shift in the playoffs and could well be the next Wing All Star caliber player. He just happened to be the LAST player taken in the 2002 draft. Also, and you mentioned this only in passing, that the Wings have added to the club by all means, but failed to give details. Which are that they have added quality players no one else apprently wanted including Maltby, Draper, Lebda and Cleary. All B players as you say, although I would argue that Draper should be rated at least a B plus. So, all toll to include Quincy and Helms, that’s ten players off the current twenty man roster the Wings aquired that no one else apparently had the brains to want.

]]> By: skolgoar http://www.islanderspointblank.com/2009/04/diffusing-the-datsyukzetterberg-argumentno-its-not-easy-drafting-skill-in-the-later-rounds/#comment-59489 skolgoar Mon, 27 Apr 2009 22:57:26 +0000 http://www.islanderspointblank.com/?p=10738#comment-59489 Interesting that the author chooses to use the 4th round as his cutoff point and 1995. After all, look at these picks ... Franzen 2004 3/97 Holmstrom 1994 10/257! Filppula 2002 3/95 Lidstrom 1989 3/53 Osgood 1991 3/54 The core of the Red Wings (and the guys that have been with the organization for a long time) are guys that were drafted in the 3rd round and later. The guy who is probably the biggest reason that the Wings have transitioned out of the Yzerman years is Lidstrom and he was chosen in the 3rd round. As a matter of fact, since Yzerman, most of their #1 picks with the exception of Primeau (#3 overall) have been busts. Now, perhaps the 3rd round isn't "a later round", but the Wings have found success because of picking guys that GMs passed on at least a couple of times. The key to the Wings success has been sticking with a core and letting their prospects develop until they were ready and ingrained in the Wings system. As far as the Tavares/Hedman debate, Tavares is the sexier pick because he is an offensive wizard, but I am not sure that he is a franchise player, because he has not shown the ability to create his own offence. He is a very good scorer, but he is like Brett Hull - a guy that makes the best of a good situation. He will be successful with a strong supporting cast, but that isn't always the case with a rebuilding team, and sometimes, it is better to build a foundational piece like Hedman who will make his teammates better rather than a guy like Tavares who can only produce when his supporting cast can help him out. Interesting that the author chooses to use the 4th round as his cutoff point and 1995. After all, look at these picks …
Franzen 2004 3/97
Holmstrom 1994 10/257!
Filppula 2002 3/95
Lidstrom 1989 3/53
Osgood 1991 3/54

The core of the Red Wings (and the guys that have been with the organization for a long time) are guys that were drafted in the 3rd round and later. The guy who is probably the biggest reason that the Wings have transitioned out of the Yzerman years is Lidstrom and he was chosen in the 3rd round. As a matter of fact, since Yzerman, most of their #1 picks with the exception of Primeau (#3 overall) have been busts. Now, perhaps the 3rd round isn’t “a later round”, but the Wings have found success because of picking guys that GMs passed on at least a couple of times.

The key to the Wings success has been sticking with a core and letting their prospects develop until they were ready and ingrained in the Wings system.

As far as the Tavares/Hedman debate, Tavares is the sexier pick because he is an offensive wizard, but I am not sure that he is a franchise player, because he has not shown the ability to create his own offence. He is a very good scorer, but he is like Brett Hull - a guy that makes the best of a good situation. He will be successful with a strong supporting cast, but that isn’t always the case with a rebuilding team, and sometimes, it is better to build a foundational piece like Hedman who will make his teammates better rather than a guy like Tavares who can only produce when his supporting cast can help him out.

]]> By: STP http://www.islanderspointblank.com/2009/04/diffusing-the-datsyukzetterberg-argumentno-its-not-easy-drafting-skill-in-the-later-rounds/#comment-59426 STP Mon, 27 Apr 2009 16:15:26 +0000 http://www.islanderspointblank.com/?p=10738#comment-59426 This may be the most well written hockey article I've ever read, in that the author establishes his argument, one which counters that which has been traditional thinking, then clearly and cogently proves that argument. As a former English teacher, I am consistently disappointed with many hockey writers; this time, I'm all smiles. Thanks to Mr. Botta. This may be the most well written hockey article I’ve ever read, in that the author establishes his argument, one which counters that which has been traditional thinking, then clearly and cogently proves that argument. As a former English teacher, I am consistently disappointed with many hockey writers; this time, I’m all smiles. Thanks to Mr. Botta.

]]> By: Tom http://www.islanderspointblank.com/2009/04/diffusing-the-datsyukzetterberg-argumentno-its-not-easy-drafting-skill-in-the-later-rounds/#comment-59410 Tom Mon, 27 Apr 2009 13:58:22 +0000 http://www.islanderspointblank.com/?p=10738#comment-59410 Ya gotta be good to be lucky! Ya gotta be good to be lucky!

]]> By: whatever http://www.islanderspointblank.com/2009/04/diffusing-the-datsyukzetterberg-argumentno-its-not-easy-drafting-skill-in-the-later-rounds/#comment-59395 whatever Mon, 27 Apr 2009 08:10:06 +0000 http://www.islanderspointblank.com/?p=10738#comment-59395 To me this piece reads like someone who is jealous of the Wings drafting skills. Okay so they got "lucky" with their drafting? I'm not from Hockeytown but it also takes good coaching and letting players develop. I disagree CB with your piece that somehow or another they would have drafted them sooner. Well with any draft you draft the best player available at that position. Maybe they didn't have them listed any higher than that. They also don't always know the quantity they are getting right away. So in that sense you are right CB but again I think that this reads more like spoiled grapes that the Wings got the players and the Isles have traded away top players by draft picks. I just honestly don't really get it, so they late round players to develop into a championship team? They obviously had a plan and went with it. To me this piece reads like someone who is jealous of the Wings drafting skills. Okay so they got “lucky” with their drafting? I’m not from Hockeytown but it also takes good coaching and letting players develop. I disagree CB with your piece that somehow or another they would have drafted them sooner. Well with any draft you draft the best player available at that position. Maybe they didn’t have them listed any higher than that. They also don’t always know the quantity they are getting right away. So in that sense you are right CB but again I think that this reads more like spoiled grapes that the Wings got the players and the Isles have traded away top players by draft picks. I just honestly don’t really get it, so they late round players to develop into a championship team? They obviously had a plan and went with it.

]]> By: Ryan http://www.islanderspointblank.com/2009/04/diffusing-the-datsyukzetterberg-argumentno-its-not-easy-drafting-skill-in-the-later-rounds/#comment-59393 Ryan Mon, 27 Apr 2009 05:57:02 +0000 http://www.islanderspointblank.com/?p=10738#comment-59393 What's been touched on in some of the comments is that Detroit doesn't just draft well. They develop well. Their players are given a strong support system, and young guys are slotted into clearly defined roles as they move up through the ranks. There's no intense pressure on young players to perform heroics immediately, and they get a chance to learn from the best players in the world--frequently their own countrymen--in their own time. When you hear people refer to Detroit as a 'model organization', it's not merely about their drafting. The franchise takes care of its players, respects them in contract negotiations, has a team identity built around a system of play and a cultural attitude, and has stability in ownership, management, and support staff. As for the Islanders' prospect pool, the late-round pick I'm highest on right now is Matt Martin. As flashy as DiBenedetto's numbers were this year, Martin's got the full game--strong defensively, strong net presence, strong leadership. Most importantly, the kid is a sponge. I wouldn't be surprised if, after his last season in juniors, he's at the top of the Islanders' prospect depth chart in early June '10. I also think you meant defused, Chris, not diffused. What’s been touched on in some of the comments is that Detroit doesn’t just draft well. They develop well. Their players are given a strong support system, and young guys are slotted into clearly defined roles as they move up through the ranks. There’s no intense pressure on young players to perform heroics immediately, and they get a chance to learn from the best players in the world–frequently their own countrymen–in their own time. When you hear people refer to Detroit as a ‘model organization’, it’s not merely about their drafting. The franchise takes care of its players, respects them in contract negotiations, has a team identity built around a system of play and a cultural attitude, and has stability in ownership, management, and support staff.

As for the Islanders’ prospect pool, the late-round pick I’m highest on right now is Matt Martin. As flashy as DiBenedetto’s numbers were this year, Martin’s got the full game–strong defensively, strong net presence, strong leadership. Most importantly, the kid is a sponge. I wouldn’t be surprised if, after his last season in juniors, he’s at the top of the Islanders’ prospect depth chart in early June ‘10.

I also think you meant defused, Chris, not diffused.

]]> By: Will OC http://www.islanderspointblank.com/2009/04/diffusing-the-datsyukzetterberg-argumentno-its-not-easy-drafting-skill-in-the-later-rounds/#comment-59391 Will OC Mon, 27 Apr 2009 03:35:12 +0000 http://www.islanderspointblank.com/?p=10738#comment-59391 @55, Atlanta isn't a hockey hotbed because they've never won, that was my argument. When Tampa and Phoenix were making the playoffs they sold out so its irrelevant that the Thrashers are in a weak hockey market. If the Thrashers had some playoff success and 90+ point seasons, they'd definately see a positive spike in attendance...with or without Kovalchuk. If the Isles continue to lose with Tavares what makes you think Isles fans will stick around? If Snow thinks Hedman, not Tavares, is a better fit toward forming a consistent winning team...I'm all for it @55, Atlanta isn’t a hockey hotbed because they’ve never won, that was my argument. When Tampa and Phoenix were making the playoffs they sold out so its irrelevant that the Thrashers are in a weak hockey market.
If the Thrashers had some playoff success and 90+ point seasons, they’d definately see a positive spike in attendance…with or without Kovalchuk.

If the Isles continue to lose with Tavares what makes you think Isles fans will stick around? If Snow thinks Hedman, not Tavares, is a better fit toward forming a consistent winning team…I’m all for it

]]> By: Chris TMC http://www.islanderspointblank.com/2009/04/diffusing-the-datsyukzetterberg-argumentno-its-not-easy-drafting-skill-in-the-later-rounds/#comment-59390 Chris TMC Mon, 27 Apr 2009 01:56:16 +0000 http://www.islanderspointblank.com/?p=10738#comment-59390 Chickendirt (43): I agree with what you said about how you CAN get servicable players in any round... as well as the rare great player. Its good that someone said it because being rare doesnt make the existence of possibility any less true! Chickendirt (43): I agree with what you said about how you CAN get servicable players in any round… as well as the rare great player. Its good that someone said it because being rare doesnt make the existence of possibility any less true!

]]> By: Jim (GFIC) http://www.islanderspointblank.com/2009/04/diffusing-the-datsyukzetterberg-argumentno-its-not-easy-drafting-skill-in-the-later-rounds/#comment-59388 Jim (GFIC) Mon, 27 Apr 2009 01:26:15 +0000 http://www.islanderspointblank.com/?p=10738#comment-59388 (1) (9) Yeah guys I'm originally from Queens now living in Westchester- very much Ranger country. Sometimes I get into staring matches with Ranger fans in Dunkin Donuts because I'm wearing Islander gear. Only in New York. (1) (9) Yeah guys I’m originally from Queens now living in Westchester- very much Ranger country. Sometimes I get into staring matches with Ranger fans in Dunkin Donuts because I’m wearing Islander gear. Only in New York.

]]> By: Jimmy Mac http://www.islanderspointblank.com/2009/04/diffusing-the-datsyukzetterberg-argumentno-its-not-easy-drafting-skill-in-the-later-rounds/#comment-59387 Jimmy Mac Mon, 27 Apr 2009 01:02:43 +0000 http://www.islanderspointblank.com/?p=10738#comment-59387 It's Canadians... JT will be the pick @ #1. I wish we were drafting a Superstar... but I will take the sniper. It's more than we have now. Nielson and Bailey in the middle... with Okposo and Tavarses on the wings. Works for me. It’s Canadians…

JT will be the pick @ #1.

I wish we were drafting a Superstar… but I will take the sniper.

It’s more than we have now.

Nielson and Bailey in the middle… with Okposo and Tavarses on the wings.

Works for me.

]]> By: doc http://www.islanderspointblank.com/2009/04/diffusing-the-datsyukzetterberg-argumentno-its-not-easy-drafting-skill-in-the-later-rounds/#comment-59386 doc Mon, 27 Apr 2009 00:47:20 +0000 http://www.islanderspointblank.com/?p=10738#comment-59386 The Thrashers can market Kovalchuck as much as they want and not sell out... because they really aren't a hockey hotbed... No? I think a player that has the excitement and pre-hyped notice of Tavares... coming to LI can indeed be enough to get the fans excited enough to come to the games. Yes... winning games will help. But... there is a fan base... "dying" for something or SOMEONE (TAVARES) to watch!!! The Thrashers can market Kovalchuck as much as they want and not sell out… because they really aren’t a hockey hotbed… No?

I think a player that has the excitement and pre-hyped notice of Tavares… coming to LI can indeed be enough to get the fans excited enough to come to the games.

Yes… winning games will help.

But… there is a fan base… “dying” for something or SOMEONE (TAVARES) to watch!!!

]]> By: Hud http://www.islanderspointblank.com/2009/04/diffusing-the-datsyukzetterberg-argumentno-its-not-easy-drafting-skill-in-the-later-rounds/#comment-59385 Hud Mon, 27 Apr 2009 00:37:07 +0000 http://www.islanderspointblank.com/?p=10738#comment-59385 Wow, can't just play some golf and have a good hockey talk with Canadiens anymore and throw it out there? Wow, can’t just play some golf and have a good hockey talk with Canadiens anymore and throw it out there?

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