LOGAN GOES TAVHEDUCH
Newsday’s primer for what happens at 1 (or 2, or 3)
Greg Logan spells out some options for the Islanders with the No. 1 pick. This Tavheduch stuff is gold, so you can never ignore it. (I could post a story today about the Islanders trying to trade for Milan Lucic, and we’d still get creamed with Comments on Greg’s story). Logie briefly goes off the rails when he suggests John-Michael Liles could possibly be worth moving from No. 1 to No. 3. Liles is a small, slightly above-average defenseman making $4.5 million each of the next two years before becoming a UFA. Besides that, there’s plenty of good stuff here. And when Greg says the Islanders could leave Friday night with both Victor Hedman and Matt Duchene, as we did two weeks ago, now we’re talkin’! Nah, I still think they’re taking Tavares at 1. Comments. Lighthouse next thread.
78 Responses to LOGAN GOES TAVHEDUCH
Newsday’s primer for what happens at 1 (or 2, or 3)
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kevin says:
great article. id rather have stewart and shattenkirk instead of liles. bbbuuuuuutttt, if tampa brings the deal up, then id do it in a heartbeat. colorado can get vinny which is an upgrade over duchene. tampa gets rid of vinny who has an enourmas contract, and they pick up tavares and have tavares-stamkos as a kick ass 1 2 punch. and we miss out on tavares but we get another great more complete center and get hedman who would be our franchise dman. and we have a lesser buy still awsome 1 2 combo in duchene and bailey.
anyway, id love to hear that lucic trade. -
Kevin says:
Why would we move down to take Lyles who will only be here for 2 years and have constant groin probs. No friggin thx. Stay don’t move down unless its for Heddy and Duchene. Just take Tavares baby!
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Rob says:
I have to question how knowlegable Greg Logan is if he thinks this defenseman Lyles is worth giving up the first pick to move down to three… That is ridiculious….
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b-ri says:
Got my issue of the hockey news draft edition delivered today. Our boy johnny is on the cover…not some swedish fish, not matt duchene..JOHN TAVARES! Wouldn’t it be nice to have an ISLANDER on the cover? Wouldn’t it be nice to hear people say…what a great pick? Sure would be. For a team that manages to screw up royally so often, it would be a great day if we do what seemingly EVERYONE is saying should be the case and draft JT. Hockey News says the only thing separating JT from the likes of wayne, mario, and sid is his skating ability, but that when he is in front of the net with a puck on his stick he knows what to do. they continue to say he will be a top ten scorer for many years to come. D-men take too long to develop for this rebuild to be a good one. The Caps took Ovie, The pens took Sid…the Islanders Should and need to take Tavares
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Eric says:
VERY VERY WELL said B-ri. I should pick up the issue and read it unless anyone has the article available?
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Isles08025 says:
I agree, the only way you don’t take JT is if you can get the 2 & 3 pick, heck I’ll throw in the 26th to make it happen!
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rb says:
Take Duchene or trade the No. 1 pick so we can draft him. Andy Hilbert’s an UFA, so we’re gonna need another 4th line center who can skate but can’t score.
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doc says:
JUST DRAFT TAVARES!!! then do whatever they want with remaining draft picks. Get cute, trade up, trade down, trade sideways… shake-up the roster, get rid of malcontents, square pegs and underperformers. Trade or release anyone that doesn’t fit the “system”. Make room for more kids from within the organisation… whatever… JUST DRAFT TAVARES on be on with it!!!
DOC
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The PolishPrince says:
Liles? Bwah ha ha ha ! No thanks. We have plenty of offensively gifted smurf like d men already. How can the Isles pass on Tavaras – a player that “at worst” becomes a consistent 40 goal guy in the NHL. If thats the lowest bar we set for him what happens if he actually backchecks and takes his defensive responsibilities seriously? Please let Logan’s scenario #1 be accurate…
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RB – No way Duchene turns out to be Andy Hilbert part #2. He’s got serious finishing ability and vision. Dandy Andy’s got wheels but hands of stone…
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Dave says:
Twice today I’ve seen people compare Matt Duchene to Andy Hilbert. What’s going on here? Andy went in the second round, Matt’s going to go third overall. There’s obviously a major difference in the way they play – otherwise we’d be talking about taking Duchene with one of our second rounders.
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Jimmy Mac says:
Just think… if we don’t take Tavarses, he will be their to haunt us his entire career…. every goal, every highlight…lol.
Hedman will be great.
Duchene came out of nowhere this season. He makes me nervous.
I’m not sure getting the 2nd and 3rd pick is even possible.
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Oren says:
Liles like 4 yrs ago. He is a consistent 40 pt d-man, something we haven’t had in a while, but not worth 1-3 drop, not even close. Would like the Duchene/Hedman scenario and would take a lot to get it done maybe even next years 1st. But I think Colrado if their smart wants to rebulid and would rather do it with Duchene than Lecavlier. I don’t see it happening. But as a Hedman fan I would love it.
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Webber says:
I’m sorry but anyone who compares Matt Duchene to Andy Hilbert has no clue who Matt is and has obviously never watched the kid play hockey. Matt will be a top line center for whichever team picks him for the better part of the next two decades. That is a completely ignorant statement.
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isles72 says:
I cant see Colorado wanting to touch that Lecavalier contract .I think the avs are perfectly happy with taking whoever slides to them at 3rd overall which seems likely to be Duchene . (Duchene/Stastny one two punch )
I think Vinny will get traded on draft day for the best package available though
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4195mary says:
I like Liles, but not nearly that much. Snow has been creative in the past. Both acqusitions of Freddy Meyer were interesting, and the Smyth deal was gutsy for a rookie GM. Plus the Bailey deals. Garth could make this very interesting. Maybe Liles and Wolski.
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MickeyBoy7 says:
All this pre-draft speculation gets me nervous. I remember when the Montreal GM offered Bill Torrey all kinds of crapola for the rights to Denis Potvin’s pick. Thank heavens Torrey stuck to his guns. Garth…don’t screw this up.
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Coach B says:
The Islanders have enough small defenseman like Liles. It must be something better to trade with Colorado.
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I agree with #16, Colorodo has CAP issues. Too many high priced players like our beloved Ryan Smyth, I do not forsee them adding another big contract. i live by the Keep it simple stupid motto! I agree, take Taveras, coach him on how to skate better and play defense, similiar to what Bossy had to learn.
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Hock says:
I worry about the thought of not drafting Tavares and being haunted by his stats too, but we will likely hear a lot of Hedman and Duchene highlights as well. At the end of the day, hopefully Snow goes with Tavares #1 and then he can get creative with the other picks.
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UIF says:
We have an entire team of supposed two-way players who are great guys and good playmakers. Please just pick the darn “selfish goal scorer” for once.
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Macch says:
Thnk Islander fans should starting being use to the idea the Isles will not pick Tavares and be open to the other options such as Hedman and Duchene. In Garth and Jano I trust. Like we have a choice anyway lol
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For anyone who doubts that this team’s greatest need is scoring and is turned off by the idea of a 40 goal sniper please keep in mind that the Isles didn’t even have a single 20 goal scorer last year. Not one. Thats my final comment – have a good Sunday all!
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Chad says:
Logan’s trade scenario involving Vinny is really far fetched BUT lets say that it happens…It is still possible that instead of having a Stamkos-Taveras combo, Tampa still drafts Hedman with the first pick. Leaving the Isles with the 2nd and 3rd picks. Not happening though.
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Lou says:
Right 4195mary, maybe Snow can reinvent the wheel and screw up the #1.
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Matt says:
having Duchene and Hedman in Islander uniforms would be pretty sweet. it would probably fix our rebuilding stage a bit quicker as well.
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Jmont6 says:
JML is not worth moving anywhere for!! What I want to know is what will it take for us to get Taveras and Hedman? Give Tampa the rest of our picks in this years draft. Or give them our San Jose pick and our 2010 pick. Hedman will be worth it.
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19 Isle in NJ 22 says:
Simple solution is to keep it SIMPLE…
DRAFT TAVARES!!
Duchene is a second line Junior star … doesn’t face the top shut down line like Tavares did … and can’t match Tavares’ finishing ability … Bossy and Howe weren’t the best skaters among their peers and they were deadly inside the blue line… oh and they got by pretty well with their wheels.
Play the year out … draft BPA next season … and then take advantage of the shrunken cap going into 2010/11 and pick from a plethora of UFA star defenders looking for a team with young guns on the rise. SIMPLE!
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bergie20 says:
i highly doubt that vinny gets dealt to the avs. they are probably better off just taking duchene. i think vinny goes to the habs. maybe the bolts get the habs first rounder and then flip it to us to take vinny’s replacement. we take hedman and have 2 more first rounders. that would be awesome.
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I hate doing this … because it really means nothing … but I can’t resist …
2010 / 2011 Lineup
Forwards:
Bergy – Tavares – Okposo
Hall? – Bailey – Comeau
Joensuu – Nielsen – Hunter
Martin – PEST – RechliczIn the wings: Figren, DiBo, UFA Pending
Defense: Needs lots of work .. lots of signed D-men.
Streit – Gervais
Witt – Hillen
Sutton – MartinekIn the Wings: Meyer IV, Katic, MacDonald.
Granted there are lots of “What if’s” … just trying to add a dash of this and that utilizing under contract players and players with potential to see some NHL time in the 2010 / 2011 season.
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The Real Vukota says:
I’m sorry but Logan really doesn’t know that much about hockey. I know a lot of you guys like him, but he writes a lot of things that have you shaking your head.
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Dave H says:
Just draft Tavares! Deals can be made with the remaining picks, but start off with JT !
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I’ll pass on keeping guys like Witt and Sutton around later on in the rebuild, thank you very much.
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The only way I would even consider moving the top pick and not taking Tavarses is if we end up with 2 top five picks this year and a 1st rounder next year.
Even then you might have to sweaten the pot with a player/prospect with a ton of potential.
If we do trade out of the 1st pick I need… Hedman and any of these top prospects included… Duchene, Magnus, Kane.
A good option would try to include LA’s pick somehow… they are looking to trade out for immediate help. They need help on Defence.
Outside of Streit everybody is available.
I’ll throw in Hunter into any deal also.
This is the BIG Draft… we need to leave with a bang.
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janne niinimaa says:
what happens if we trade away the first overall pick, and somehow get the 2 and 3 overall pick in return. then what happens if the holder of the first overall pick takes hedman? we get tavares and duchene. we dont need both, so we would move either of bailey, tavares, or duchene for a winger or prospect dman. who gets traded?
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Last Post … Dave (30) … I agree both Witter and Sutton are on the out list … I’ll even add Marty and Meyer IV to that list … but all those players are under contract through 10/11 … and unless they are traded or bought out (cap hit) I see no alternative until the Isles’ D prospects mature or Snow figures out a way to make room. That is why I said D needs lots of work … a “dead wood” log jam of older players … Perhaps some can be used as trade bait at next years’ deadline?
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Take Tavares!!!!!
And the heck with Duchene, if I could have another top forward in this draft along with Tavares, it would be Evander Kane….. Kane reminds me alot of Okposo… No, not just because he has same skin tone.. It is because Kane is the only top 10 forward that puts up tons of points, AND likes to hit, grind and play physical…. Kane has an all around game like Okposo… When it comes time for playoff hockey, I like those guys that can play physical as well as score.. If we somehow passed on Tavares, I would rather have a Hedman-Kane combo, then a Hedman Duchene combo.. -
Rob76 says:
For the life for me i just dont know why it cant be so easy as JT is the best, he can be our franchise player for at least 8 years. Maybe its because there is so much time in between the lottery and the draft so every one gets creative. This should be a slam dunk
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Michael from T.O. says:
I think from past experiences we all know that Snow keeps everything quiet. I would not be surprised to see the Isles make some sort of deal to get two picks in the top five. Did anyone see the Ryan Smyth deal happening?
Snow has assets (with may picks and the odd player), so if he can add two of the top five players, especially Hedman and Duchene, then do it.
To win in this league, you can’t depend just on one player. All lines need to produce to win. Look at the teams left in the playoffs. All of their lines have scored key goals to win games. It’s easy to shut down one guy. Its hard to shut down four lines. -
Robby D says:
Logan should be banned from writing about the Islanders for suggesting that we trade down with Av’s for Liles! Who the hell wants him? He sucks. Isle’s shouldnt trade unless they get their doors blown off. If not, take Tavares. In the Hockey News, Peter Botte seemed pretty confident that the Isles are taking Tavares and called all this other crap a smokescreen. Many others and I hope Mr. Botte is correct. We are sick of being the laughing stock and given Ranger fans waaaay too much material to drive us crazy. In my opinion, Tavares reminds me of Ron Francis with Joe Sakic hands. Take him!
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Strummer's Army says:
I think Logan was trying to think the Isles would need to take a salary dump situation off Col. I’m with all of you in that I wouldn’t want Liles. A quick look at their roster and prospects not sure I see much I do want from them.
However, I do think if Snow manuevers himself into a situation to get Hedman and Duchene (if they are as good as advertised) rather then just one player in Tavares (as special as he appears) he’d almost have to do it.
The scenario one I suggested weeks ago is very possible.
Snow’s goal should be coming out of round one with Hedman, Duchene, and Kassian. Could you imagine? WOW! It appears easily do able and it appears with the pieces the Isles already have to be the makings of a Cup Winner.
Anyone know how physical Hedman and Duchene is?
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nyislanders93 says:
Michael from T.O.(40)- Sometimes it’s not possible to shut down one guy. Ovechkin, Crosby, Malkin, Kovalchuk all don’t get shut down. The Islanders need their superstar. Tavares is that guy. All of the teams remaining also have superstar quality first lines.
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Leviticus says:
hey Robbie D (#41), Francis? Sakic? Based on how many games of his did you see? Read the Hoxkey News carefully. NOT a franchise player according to all but the fans who desperately want to believe he is one.
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steve says:
this is a big draft. you should all go to the nhl website( draft tab), and look at teams drafting records, all of them. nothing is science, though it seems in the last 2 or 3 years, first round picks have had better success. if you need to puke, check the isles 1999 draft, 4 first round picks. my point, there is a trade off between potential, and actual results. when your the worse team in the nhl, every deal should be explored. then you do whats best for your team,long term.
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StevieL says:
Again I am going to point out that Tavares scored “27″ more goals in the reg OHL season than Duschene! 27!!! not 5 or 10, “27″!!!!I don’t care if Duschene can skate like Peggy Fleming and back check like Bob Gainey, I want the finisher! Hedman can come out and play great defense but we would still need to find goal scorers. Outside of Okposo we have “no one” who is even a guaranteed 15 goal scorer!! Why is this so difficult? Draft Tavares and either trade up to 15 to 20 or just use every other pick to pick defense. Everybody says Tavares is only projected to score 40 goals a year in the NHL. Only 40?? Go look up how many 40 goal scorers were in the league this year! Not many! Draft Tavares!
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Big Van Vader says:
If Garth does something other than draft Tavares, Ill need something awfully big and heavy to throw through the Jumbotron at the Draft Party. Maybe Kate Murray is available? No, no…she only attends if there are farm animals present. Perhaps the Garden is having its’ own draft party?
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DonK says:
Tavares has been a dominant player throughout his junior career. He was dominant as a 16-year-old — the best sign of future stardom is dominance when you’re playing against older players. Duschene has never exhibited that kind of dominance. Tavares has the drive and will to be the kind of offensive force the Islanders haven’t had in eons.
Greg’s suggestion of Liles is beyond absurd — Liles is a decent player who’s signed for two more years at ridiculous money.
When you’re picking No. 1, you have to come away with the best player. If Snow does not come away with the best player, he should be fired immediately. Frankly, I see little doubt that Tavares is the best player — Duchesne isn’t as good and it’s almost inconceivable that he ever will be.
Great teams are built around elite talents. Tavares is the most elite talent out there — and the Isles will be able to control him for a number of years.
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One thing all Tavares fans forget when they mention the playoffs: Every team remaining including Chicago are deep. Carolina is and so is Detroit and Pitt. Hedman and a Kane plus Schenn from Toronto would be nice. Kane Schenn and Hedman provide us instant depth and youth…plus we can move up to draft another foward Maybe Kassian??
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Chris Mc says:
I like Logan but his trade scenario involving Lecavalier and the Isles makes no sense. If Tampa could wrangle the 3rd pick away fro Colorado for Vinny, why on earth would they trade 2 and 3 to the Isles to get 1 and prospects from both teams. Id much rather be sitting with 2 and 3 and take Hedman and Duchesne and let the Isles stay at 1.
The only way the Isles get 2 of the top 3 picks is if they trade up for one of them, not trade down.
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nyislanders93(43): I agree with you in that the Isles need a franchise player, but who says Tavares is the only franchise player available?
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Instead of trading down to take Duchene, maybe we can trade the No. 1 pick for 10-15 picks from the 3rd to 6th rounds. This way we’ll still get a fast center who can’t score as well as lots of career minor leaguers and other guys we’ll never offer contracts to.
We’ll also be in the running for the No. 1 overall pick next year, and maybe we can then draft a 40-50 goal scorer who Kyle Woodlief actually likes as opposed to this year’s 40-50 goal scorer that he doesn’t like.
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Irish Isle says:
#45 That really is scarey, looking at 1st round picks and trying to figure out which ones I know.
And I must agree w/ #29.
As Logan pointed out:
“He was Brampton’s third-leading scorer with 31 goals and 79 points in 58 games, but OHL coaches voted him the league’s best playmaker and best stickhandler. His accomplishments came while playing with second-line wingers behind top-line center Cody Hodgson, the 10th overall pick last season.”Why do we want to take a guy who was not the leading scorer or main player on his own team. Behind a guy that was drafted #10 overall last season, a center we passed on for Bailey. When we could have the best scorer in the draft. A player who has been #1 for so long, he has been over-analzed w/ scouts looking for faults, which are now taking importance over his strengths. I wonder if Duchene would still be drafted in the first round if the scouts over analyzed his game for faults.
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Ajax says:
51 – WHAT???? 10-15 3rd-6th round picks? no
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Jim says:
Just think how good JT is going to look in Royal Blue and Orange, maybe Toronto will change their colors to envy green.
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Michael from T.O.(50)- Tavares is the most likely franchise player in the draft. He is predicted to be, at worst, a 40 goal scorer. Hedman will likely be a franchise defenseman, but the Islanders need that sniper. Duchene isn’t predicted to do the things that Tavares can. I’m just saying that Tavares is the most likely to turn out a franchise player for the team.
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If Snow can get the 2nd and 3rd picks, more power to him, but I don’t see it happening without giving up too much.
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NYICHAMP39 says:
Either Tavares alone or Hedman AND Duchene. If we just end up with Hedman alone many people will be pissed, myself included. The prospect of both Hedman and Duchene is the only reason why I would pass on Tavares.
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mike says:
Can’t get to into this or excited knowing that in a few years we could be without a team? It really sucks the life out of this draft.
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What if we offered Tampa our first #26, 3 second rounders and Witt for the second
pick in 2009. Think they would go for that? Isles would Draft Taveres and Hedman…..That would be something if Snow could pull something like that off. -
JAS says:
To add to #52
Also, Tavares was the PRIMARY target of every team to shut him down. Despite “only” 10 goals and 21 pts in 14 playoff games he had a awesome finish to the season – 32 GOALS in 24 games, that’s 1.33 goals per game once he was traded to London, a team with alot more talent.
Tavares scored 72 goals in 68 games as a 16 year old. Had he played the entire season this year on London @ 1.33 goals per game thats 90 goals in 68 games. And they’re saying he didn’t get any better???? And just watching the clips, he scores from ALL OVER and is awesome on the PP.
No way MD is in same class.
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should be #53 comments I hope #52 is kidding!
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Neil says:
Greg Logan…the man who thought the Isles “Make the pick” contest was real. Enough said.
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I agree with 60. Instead of talking hedman and Duchene, we should be talking Taveres and Hedman. Right now we have more to offer in way of picks than we have ever had. If we could get the top 2 men in the draft it would be worth losing our other first rounder and all the seconds.
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One other thing for all the JT bashers right now. Remember a forward who was critized for being one dimensional only able to score and not able to play defense. He wore number 22 and he turned out ok.
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Tavares’ resume
only OHL player ever granted “exceptional player” status at age 14
broke Wayne Gretzky’s OHL mark as a 16 yr old with 72 goals
Broke the all-time record for most OHL goals ever 215
Tied with Lindros and Jeff Carter with 12 WJC goals for Canada, most ever
Had he played the full season with London I think he would’ve broke the single season OHL mark of 81 goals
No trades, just end the debate and announce JT as the #1 pick. Stop making me laugh with the John michael-liles stuff.
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jethro09 says:
The Isles will never be able to pull off getting the second and third overall simply by giving up their first overall. They will have to give up too much to make that deal happen.
For that reason, I say screw trading out of #1 overall and take Tavares. Then, try to move up from #26 by trading one or maybe two of the second rounders along with #26 to get into the top 12 and take the best available d-man.
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steveO says:
John Tavares!!!!!!!!!!!!
CB
are the Ave’s looking to draft a foward or D-man(now im dreaming if the Ave’s take Hedman)moving from No. 1 to No. 3. and Liles and then trade Witt, late first round and tampy to Tampa for there first and we draft A TavaDUH -
Steve says:
Tavares has to happen. The only exception to this rule would be to get Hedman and Duchesne. Tavares is he fans choice, and as everyone knows professional sports is all about the fans.
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dave chyzowski says:
does anyone know if Garth went to watch, in person, the World Juniors this year?
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#29, #46, and #61 JT all the way!
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Railbait says:
Tavares!
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hathead68 says:
CB, with everything I have inside me as a 30 year Islander fan, I hope you are right and Tavares becomes an Islander with the 1st overall pick! All this trade talk is getting me so aggravated. Just do the right thing and make the simple choice, and that’s JT. How to best utilize the 26th, 31st, and 37th overall picks is the intriguing part. CB, what about some perspective from Bossy or Trottier. I would think Trottier would love to work with Tavares. Maybe it would entice Bossy to tutor him a little also. Bossy’s perspective as arguably the NHL’s best all-time pure goal-scorer and current position with the business and marketing side for the Isles, would be very interesting. Maybe you can find out for us?
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Another thought CB. This regarding Duchene. He’s a great skater, but not a great goal-scorer. He’s not considered a terrific playmaker either. We have Jeff Tambellini, we don’t need another.
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Ugly Roe From Massapequa says:
Here’s what we do: Draft Tavares with the number one pick. Then, trade all the other picks that we have to Tampa Bay for the number two and use it to take Hedman.
Would we do that? Would Tampa Bay do that?
Is that an idea that is appealing to the fans, or is it as unappealing as I am?
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dduck says:
Just pick Taveras. If this was just about any other team this would not be a discussion. Stop the madness. Isles management needs to do the right thing and prove that they have half a brain. Everyone is ok with last years draft now but wait till next year when you have to watch Filatov play. Kid is going to be a star and all of sudden nice guy Bailey and those picks aren’t going to look so good.
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Steady says:
Duchene is by far the best player in this draft, and we are Several players away from Not being terrible Islander505 agrees.
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bryan says:
lets draft a goalie with the pick! hahaha
CB….
This is why your the best in the biz…You have already come up with all these scenerio’s weeks ago. Liles worth moving up???HA HA HA HA…Thanks Again CB….Been trying to hit the links as many times as I can.
Phish @ Fenway woohoo!!!