LARRY BROOKS GETS IT RIGHT ON NYI
Says season cannot be about the Lighthouse Project
The future Hall of Fame columnist for the Post becomes the first mainstream writer to put in the newspaper what we’ve been saying for months. Forget about the Lighthouse – if a shovel was to hit ground tomorrow, it’s still years away. Stop giving longshot political candidates free advertising on your scoreboard when fans are paying to watch a hockey game.
Invest in skilled hockey players. Stop making excuses. Stop creating self-fulfilling prophecies. Stop selling Joey Mac and Yann as the problem last year. Stop talking about prospects who are either nothing special or 2-3 years from having an impact. Take advantage of the gifts of John Tavares (el foldo ’08-09 + lottery win) and Kyle Okposo (drafted while Neil Smith was GM). Put some players around them. Run a professional hockey team. Okay, Larry might not have said all of that. I am.
96 Responses to LARRY BROOKS GETS IT RIGHT ON NYI
Says season cannot be about the Lighthouse Project
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IslesinOside says:
I do agree CB with Larry and yourself and Wang should be putting this club first and maintaining a “Good Product” on the ice. I can’t help but ask though.. How can Wang put any more money into this organization to develop a good product when there is no certainity for this teams future existance on LI? Maybe it is just my view as an outsider looking in, but Wang just keeps cutting things from this organization, likely in an effort to ease some financial bleeding.
Even though the LHP is years away if they unearthed the first shovel of sand tomorrow, a simple word of “YES” from the TOH would give Wanger the confidence to invest further in this team. -
Sorry for the second post CB and this might be a stupid question but does the TOH reap any financial benefits from the attendance brought into the NVMC or simply it’s existance in Uniondale?
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Eastonhockey says:
Where’s wangs guarantee that if we give him the lighthouse he will stop running the isles like the Montreal expos were run? Wang has been an disaster in every way. The younger fans can’t see it cause they didn’t see greatness. If the Yankees turned into the Baltimore orioles for 20 years straight you would still get younger Yankee fans saying “hey stop complaining we will be good some day”
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beatlebailey says:
Only problem with your arguement CB is you need a competent GM and not a monkey to run the team. CBW has yet to get the GM position right from Milbury to our present monkey.
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King says:
It’s funny because me and my father ( a long time Islander fan since the Islanders first came into being) talk about this all the time. Everyone here praises Charles Wang for doing so much for this team but he has done nothing..infact he has made it worse. Why is the team in this shape it is now? Charles Wang decided not to fire mike the mad man milbury for how many years? then he holds the team in limbo because he wants a reality project done? and now he is telling snow not to spend any money on free agents because of the lighthouse? Im sorry guys but this is all wangs fault stop jumping on the band wagon and realize the truth he put us here and now hes using the team as a smoke screen to get the project done. Everyone here damn well knows that if that team was competitive that people would see them. Shawn Bates scoring that penalty shot in game 4? I almost cried because i realized something at that moment, Islander fans do exist and they are still there. Start winning and they will come back no one and i mean no one pays to see there team lose.
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Frank nyc says:
Your preaching to the choir my man.
We need a good scoring wing and
a couple of decent d men who can actually
make an outlet pass. Its becoming comical how much
these guys turn it over in the neutral zone.
Also Scott Gordon needs to make some adjustments to the system. You heard it from the caps. The isles players look exausted in the 3rd period. That is probably why they keep losing it in the 3rd. -
Mike for Philly says:
Good Post, C.B. Enough is enough, this organization has become an embarassment to its fans and all of New York.
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mike 8 says:
This organization is in as bad a condition as it was when Wang purchased the team in 2000. I know he’s lost money, but it was his job as owner to find a way to make this work and he’s failed miserably. His personal decisions have been awful and thats where it starts. As a die-hard, Ive lost faith in Charles Wang.
Also, can someone ask Snow why he had to spend all his FA money on goalies? Why not spend it on help for Tavares or to improve our awful defense. Piss poor management.
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jimb says:
“Good Post, C.B. Enough is enough, this organization has become an embarassment to its fans and all of New York.”
I one hundred percent agree…enough is enough! I don’t even think this rebuild is going in the right direction. I look at the Islanders prospects, and I don’t see any of them becoming great assets to this team barring Kyle and Tavares. I think its time to find a better GM because Snows visions are altered if he thinks this product he put on the ice can come close to competing.
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personnel decisions that is, sorry
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Rick says:
Mike, this team is actually in worse shape then when Wang bought it, namely because he left Mike Milbury in charge for another 6 years after taking ownership of the team, and watched as his ‘trusted advisor’ made one bonehead deal after another. That being said, I acknowledge the fact that without Chuckles, this team probably wouldn’t still be on LI today. But thanks to Chuckles, I can say that I use the word ‘team’ lightly, because more often then not, this group does not resemble a NHL franchise.
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tony says:
Well said CB…the Isles have a been run like a circus since the lockout and it has definitely had an impact on the level of free agents that will come and play here. The cream of the crop won’t even consider it. Charles is not a hockey guy he is a business man, he needs to turn the reigns over to a bonafide front office hockey veteran. Let Charles worry about the Lighthouse and leave the day to day hockey operations to someone else. And stop thinking out of the box!! We need to win a playoff series, it’s been almost twenty years!! I wish Ted Nolan stayed…at least the team he put on the ice could compete every night.
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Staten Islander says:
I agree with Brooks, to a point. The fact is, though it hasn’t been evident yet, the goaltenders we have this year ARE better than what we had last year, and quality free agents won’t come here till the arena/Lighthouse situation is sorted out. They could have given the Bruins exactly the same thing as the Leafs did for Kessel and there is no way he’d agree to come here, original 6 team or not. Didn’t they make offers to Tanguay and Orr? Look at Higgins, they made him an offer and he signed with the Rags. The fact is, its going to be a while till this team is attractive to the good free agents, and it all starts with the Lighthouse.
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Steven says:
I love how everyone who is not an owner GM or scout and does not have to face the problems Charles has to face makes it sound so easy to turn around the Isles. We keep talking about signing free agents and I never see a list of impact free agents that will play with the Isles. Please do not give me Alex Tanguay.
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stephen says:
CB- i love my team, but its a business. and its a business losing money, a whole lot of money. by todays standards, its a bad building, with a worse lease. love to read any debate on that point.
if those points are accepted, what would it take for this franchise to reach the “black” for a year. 90% tix sold and winning a playoff round? thats tough( 8 teams win a round, are they selling 90% of their seats?) but reasonable, if true. thats a big if. again, i would love a factual response.
i think a great many folks posting here, including the moderator, need to get a handle on the N.Y. Islaners being a business. a business thats losing money. as per Newsday, a whole lotta money. i am not interested in being all things Mr Wang. i respect that the guy has taken it in the fiscal teeth season after season, and not walked away. 7 game series vs the Leafs, and that season, the team lost money. you were walking away from this blog, not cause you dont love it, but because of fiscal concerns. the team owner should be held to the same standard. -
Thank You 16. Someone who understands this is not fantasy hockey or NHL210. Wang faces real world probles that most owners are not facing. Wang did not create this mess with the building and the lease. If all this mess is taken care of and Wang still does not want to spend then that is a problem. Until then, the Isles are going to have problems.
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Merrick says:
Larry Brroks is right.
The simple truth is that for Mr. Wang, the Islanders are a loss leader for a real estate project. With no hope for the real estate project, there is no reason to invest more money in the loss leader.
I understand that business is business and that Mr. Wang may have kept the franchise here when he bought the team, but you can’t tell me that during the last go-go decade, there would have been no buyers for the Islanders without the LH project.
That said, all of Islander Nation is held hostage by Wang’s real estate venture. And since that project has no certain future, we are left with garbage. I have no gripe with any of the individuals on the ice as human beings; they want to play and win and mostly give it their best shot. God bless ‘em. But as we all know, that isn’t enough. They are a hockey version of Pickett’s Charge, storming the enemy wall with courage at the general’s command, only to be gunned downed by superior forces and firepower with no measurable progress at the end.
Btw, the next Islanders home giveaway should be blindfolds to be worn by all fans during the 3rd period–sponsored by Roto-Rooter.
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blitz says:
If the team was winning consistently, then the arena situation would not be the excuse it is made out to be. It would be secondary, but because the team is subpar it IS the issue.
Wang is losing money. Fine. However, he has hired/fired the entire management team since he has owned the team.
The lack of on ice success, which relates to attendance, marketing, UFA’s, sales, etc. are HIS responsibilities and failures.
Everybody loves a new car, but after awhile its the performance/functions that keep one satisfied.
Fans should have reservations that just because a new building might be on the horizon, it will be the cure all for on ice performance/success. After all, the same guy will still be running the same show just a new stage.
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Chris says:
#16 said it best.
“The simple truth is that for Mr. Wang, the Islanders are a loss leader for a real estate project. With no hope for the real estate project, there is no reason to invest more money in the loss leader.”Well said, my thoughts exactly. Time for us Islander fans to start using our voice to demand a new owner, not one who is here for the real estate. Stop scapegoating the coach, it’s Wang that must go. WANG must go! WANG must go!
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BringBackNyles says:
There was a time in sports when a new building meant a boost in a teams fortunes, but that is long gone. I am at the point where I think the Lighthouse won’t even help.
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mrlbem says:
Agree with Brooks, and agree with you, Chris. However, that makes it all the more frustrating. Because the time to act to make this season all about improving the on ice product was over the summer, after the draft. It seems to me that it’s too late to do anything about this year. Even if you placed some of the older dead wood on waivers, and even if they were claimed, what does that get you? One FA wing and one FA Defenseman, both 28 or under, would have measurably improved this team without setting back the rebuild. And I could see signing one of either Roloson OR Biron, but not both. The way they’re playing, neither will fetch much more that a mid-round pick at the deadline. They should have resigned Danis.
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Matt says:
I agree 100% Chris. As fans, we have had enough of losing season after losing season. We deserve better and if Charles Wang can’t give us better then SELL THE TEAM.
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I heard Wang on an interview b4 the season state “you have to lose big to win big in the NHL … Like the penguins” his exact words. Is it possible Wang instructed snow to waste money on a backup goalie in biron so there would be no foward or defensmen signed so that the team could purposely lose as much as possible? Was snow instructed to come in last place again?
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kreatiiv says:
“Stop talking about prospects who are either nothing special or 2-3 years from having an impact.”
hear, hear, CB!
you did however forget to include in that list to stop talking about what magic is going to come from the players we already have on the roster who have been there for a few years now and still are just a hole in space most of the time. how many years do you wait? we have a handful of players we have been waiting to fulfill expectations for years now – we have assembled the largest collection of guys that can hit the logo on the goalie’s jersey from any spot on the ice… or miss the net entirely. or fan on the shot. or fall. or trip breaking towards the net. or just plain lose the puck trying to single-handedly break past three defenders twice their skill, experience, and pay grade.
it just seems to me we have a group of mid 20-something talent that seems to be caught in a never-ending loop of sad sack “cant catch a break no matter what” kind of slapstick routine – the murphy’s law special interest group, and we keep hearing about how great they are going to be once they “find their stride.”
just how long do you wait before you cut them loose and add some talent that doesnt trip over their own feet while breaking towards the net?
how long before you stop praising what they havent done yet at the least?
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D-man says:
cb… it’s harder and harder to come back here with all the negativity… u said all last year they were gonna stink this year too… so why the post on the obvious?
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what else is there to talk about? the royal blue uniforms? We suck that is the topic of today, yesterday, and tomorrow. Just watch Streit Okposo and Tavares..they are the only league wide NHL quality players we have.
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JKP on LI says:
Chris and Larry Brooks are both 100% right. At some point, the question becomes “is there a hockey team here or not?” This year, I’m well aware that there’s a building tenant here, not so much on the hockey.
And that Brooks column reminded me: just what is up with Gordon advertising that they’re going to dump Weight at the deadline? It’s stuff like this that makes me shake my head about him, notwithstanding a random opposing player saying the team is well coached.
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Mikey says:
“Put some players around them.” It’s an easy thing to say, but you do not offer any concrete examples re how this should be done. Free agents? Tanguay has all of 2 assists this season! Gaborik, Camalleri, and Gionta? They were all massively overpaid, and I don’t think they would sign here anyway. Komisarek and Bueachemin? They are slugs and would add virtually nothing to this team. The pickings were slim. Do you want trades instead? I would be open to some trades, but the reality is that Mad Mike Milbury decimated our potential trading assets. I am not absolving Charles Wang of responsibility; he refuses to spend more than the cap minimum and is responsible for retaining Milbury. However, you make it seem like assembling a quality NHL team can be accomplished with a snap of the fingers. Brian Burke and Milbury thought the same thing; it’s not realistic.
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streit02 says:
Well said Staten Islander. 100% correct. The goaltending issue needed to be addressed. HOwever, so far i dont feel they are doing any better than Macdonald or Danis at this point (which is no discredit to Snow at all). We had 2 backup goalies last year and Snow brought in 2 guys capable of holding #1 roles. As for those complaining about signing both: Biron was had at a steal. If anything he becomes a trade chip at the deadline. Why on earth would anyone criticize a move like this. It wasnt a choice between Biron or a forward or dman. Fact is Garth got a player who was looking for a #1 role and a long term deal for big money adn signed him to a one year deal for virtually nothing compared to what he was asking for. What would happen if Roloson got hurt the 1st couple of games and we had a career AHL’er playing again. Snows fault again right? because Roloson is old and yada yada yada
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I also cant believe that fans are bashing a man who has lost milions and millions of dollars keeping our franchise here on LI. Sorry to inform everyone, but people purchase sports franchises as investments. Its a business. Wang did not buy the Islanders because he was a huge hockey fan. Its not his fault hes being jerked around by the town of hempstead for the last few years now. Its great if you think someone else is going to buy the Islanders just for the sake of saving the team, but that is not going to happen. Everything is about business. When franchises are in trouble they seek money through other parties in order to keep them afloat. Wang is not asking for that. I think Charles Wang has done more than enough to earn praise from Islander fans. Remember the owners before him? If not for Charles, we might not be here right now.
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Brooks Simpson says:
Garth Snow’s playing a risky game. The kids by themselves show flashes, nothing more. Streit’s this generation’s Ed Westfall … a solid player who’s being asked the shoulder the world. Doug Weight, fine guy and all, is still injured too much. The Isles declined to pick up players they could have afforded to raise this team up a few notches, so I guess the theme is “go with the kids and head for the lottery again.” One problem: unless you place the kids in a position where they can develop, instead of being overwhelmed, you may torpedo your entire rebuild. I love Moulson/Tavares/Okposo … as a second line that may well develop into something more … give the kids some help.
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Michael from Toronto says:
As far as I’m concerned, if the Lighthouse goes through, and the team continues the way it has, the only change will be a more modern building with more empty seats.
This teams really lacks a “true” leader. Weight, Park, Witt are great, but when it comes to making the big hit or scoring the big goal, they have nobody. Goaltending and coaching is not the problem. The system works, as seen by having third period leads. They need someone to take command and show the team how to finish off.
As Brooks Laich said, they need a killer instict. This team doesn’t have those types of players who pick it up even more when they have the lead. Maybe its conditioning, maybe they get to comfortable, but IMO they have nobody on this team to grab the bull by the horns and truly show them the way.
Sorry for the long post and beinga bit off topic CB. Just had to vent a bit. -
rb says:
I don’t agree with what Brooks says. Has anyone looked at the standings? We have 6 points. Toronto has 1, Florida has 5, Minnesota 6, Anaheim, Nashville and Carolina 7. So whoop de do, there’s lots of teams in our zip code.
More important, though, where is the COACH in all of this? If Laich was right and this team was gassed in the last 10 minutes last night, whose fault is that? The GM?
And is our personnel that much worse than Colorado, which changed coaches and is playing well? Heck, is our personnel that much worse than the Devils who only have an impact goaltender and 2/3 of a good line in Parise and Zajac?
At some point the coach has stop whining about the lack of personnel and maximize what his players can do. Al Arbour went deep into the playoffs with guys like Bert Marshall, Andre St. Laurent, Gerry Hart, Jude Drouin, an aging J.P. Parise, an aging Eddie Westfall, and young guys like Howat and Nystrom. The coach and the fans didn’t go whining around that Bill Torrey wasn’t building Rome fast enough.
Where is this coach’s ability to use his personnel properly? Maximize players’ ability?
I blame all these 3rf period collapses on the coach not the GM. It’s 2 seasons now of it.
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Its sad but the reason the Isles fans have so much resentment towards every move they make is from previous ownership and GM blunders. We have all suffered greatly from about the day Turgeon was traded til the day we got Yashin and Peca. We had a great team that year, but there was still one kink in the Isles brass (Milbury) that stuck around too long to make too many moves than he should have. I wouldnt call those playoff years for the Isles “suffering”, but when we couldnt go further with what we had it was time for change. Its sad that a turnover in a hockey game will revert to statements back to the fishtick days, but this is what life is like being an Islander fan. Its been so easy to complain over the years, too many of us have gotten used to it (alot is merited as well). Please dont use the old days to fault a man who has done more and lost more money than anyone else would have keeping this franchise on long island. I understand the “lets play hockey” theme, but its hard to ignore the lighthouse when the future of your franchise depends on it.
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Oren says:
Enough of Wang hiding behind the Lighthouse. Put a winner on the Ice and “they will come”. Not build some oversized strip mall and contained sprawl and “they will come.” If its primarily for money then Wang should sell the team.
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Isle be Damned says:
I never liked Larry Brooks all that much because he tends to over do it with beating us up. But he is 100% right here.
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Moulson26 says:
As a season ticket holder, I was upset about the loss last night. However, loosing is something which I can deal with. Winning will take time. As the newspaper article stated, we need to see progress. I disagree with some posts up here which state that there is no progress other than tavares and okposo. Although certainly not a rookie prospect, I think Jack Hillen had an enormous game last night. I also believe Matt Moulson (although also not a typical rookie) is absolutely progress in the making. He is gritty, gets in front of shots and is not afraid to take a beating in front of the net. Not to mention he produces results, 5 goals, 3 assists.
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Put a new management team in place and people might take interest. I am sorry but if I was a pro hockey player and I saw what was going down on Long Island, I would not even consider signing here. If someone comes in who can bring stability, things may change. Us and fans have to make a stand or this will continue to go on. It amazes me how so many of us have bought into the “building through the draft” Building through the draft is ok but you have to bring in quality players through free agency and trade also.
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Jeff says:
You are 100% CB. The team needs to put a credible product on the ice. Wang was willing to spend when he bought the team. He bought Yashin and Peca on board and iced the best team since 1993. Then he tired of waiting for the LH project and has gone into survival mode.
Snow has been a huge bust as GM. KO was Neil Smith’s pick; let’s look at what Snow has done. He took Josh Bailey when he could have taken Schenn. Bailey has been a bust any way you measure it. Should he have had another season of juniors? Sure, but, again, that was Snow’s decision.
He picked JT, but so would everyone else in the world. Other than signing Streit, can anyone name one good thing he’s done? My favorite is picking Schremp off wavers, making him a top six forward and then benching him when he isn’t up to the job! After all, so many top six forwards are waived. Unreal!!
If Wang wants to be taken seriously, he needs to admit his mistake, hire a real GM (who can then hire a real NHL coach) and then look to move the team to Queens.
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UIF says:
Current frustration has little or nothing to do with Milbury or previous owners, imo. Fourth year at the job and our current GM – working under our current owner – has taken a team he inherited that made the playoffs and turned it into a team that this year was completely and utterly out of the playoff race by game six.
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OJK says:
First time I ever agreed with Larry Brooks
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How about the Islanders start by doing something they can control? Give us regular updates on the franchise player. When was the last official update? If the guy is hurt beyond repair, tell us. DP’s health or lack of no longer effects ticket sales.
Last year I called the guy Pavano on skates and was ripped. Unless the Islanders are hiding something , I stand by it. I could give a fig how much DP loves the Island ior how he cnsiders this home, either he is jaking it or he is really hurt beyond fixing. Let’ get it out in the open and move on. Updates from his Dad, people seing him at the mall or moles at practice don’ cut it.
The Mets handling of reyes was ripped all year, and this is 100 times worse. Silence is defeaning. They find a way to send me 100 emails about supporting the Lighthouse yet you wouldn’ know Rick was still on the roster (or maybe he’s not based on Opening Night introductions)
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MSA says:
I agree, and have said here before, that we need some vets at forward and D to have a product that the fans can tolerate, and to mentor the kids. I am a long time season ticket holder, and this just sucks.
But before we blame Wanger for the lack of deep pockets (we have other things to blame him for) that hurts the franchise, at least we know why he is doing it (sucker lease, being tortured with the Lighthouse, huge financial losses, etc), and here is some food for thought:
How did the it work out for the Rags with insane payrolls, one of the best venues in the league, and a revolving door, headline making UFA top signings every season? Maybe they will have a good year, but it has looked that way before. Are they on the top of anyone’s chart to represent the Conference at the Cup this year?????
My point? You cannot just buy a contender in this league. If we all magically got what we wanted (spending), it is enough?
We need (as said by others) some REAL NHL MANAGEMENT.
We cannot keep looking back at the mismanagement by Milbury that still hurts us, what is done is done, but – with the deep pockets and the state of art venue (see all over the league, especially North).YOU STILL NEED THAT MAGIC COMBO OF GM AND COACH. The stars line up very rarely, even with everything else in place.
Do we have that magic combo, or would we be just throwing good money after bad?
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if the isles have a poor season, but show on their roster a handful of young players with NHL scoring skill, example.. bergie, JT, KO, Moulson?, JB becomes the player the scouts anticipated.we determine who our top 3 centers will be going foward. the return of a healthy RDP in net. with streit on defense, and a top 5 pick in the 2010, plus a pot of money can get us the buzz to attract the player(s) we need to improve.
theres a lot of current downside. find the upside in these guys. in moulson playing well, in the effort of bergie, the fact that JB has clearly bulked up, lets hope his skills emerge. weight is a mentor, a teacher, not the missing piece to a stanley cup run. witt is an established pro. if his skills have eroded( its been 9 games call it a slump), his approach to being a pro hasn’t. thats stuff you pass on to rookies.
or get sour for the next 6 months.”its (insert player, gm,owner, coach) fault we are a weak team.” we have 1 win, but have held the lead in nearly every game we have played. leading 2-0 in the third is better then down 4-0 in the first. -
#28, Wang can lose money and still ice a competitive NHL hockey club. Actually, he can lose money with a winning hockey team.
Fans, increased attendance, media, attention, and overall goodwill come with a winning team. Just the opposite when you ice a last place team on the heels of a last place team.
Moreover, Wang has elected to play the sympathy story of the lack of an adequate facility as a reason for the on ice futility.
Detroit has a pretty crappy building in a pretty crappy city, but somehow they do not have problems icing a competitive team or attracting UFAs. One team wins consistently, the other does not.
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tom says:
well said…sign some d men in the offseason…if you don’t want to try because you are losing money and your arena deal isn’t working then sell the team, and let another owner try, It was ridiculous that this team did not sign any defenseman this past offseason
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I certainly don’t think any of the management is qualified to run this team but in Wang’s defense he loses at least 20 million dollars a year on this team no matter how good they do…after 7 years of that I wouldn’t put another nickel into the team than I had to either unless I knew the financial blood was going to stop by way of some return.
I ask all of you this..
Would you invest YOUR hard earned dollar bills into the stock of a company that lost millions of dollars no matter how good the product was just because you liked it?
Many of you “Fans” won’t spend your dollars on a ticket to see a piss poor team play because you wouldn’t get the return of “Satisfaction”, that is certainly understandable. So why should Wang spend anymore of his own dollars on an investment that is looking to void him of his return of “Finance”(The LHP)
Personally I couldn’t care if Wang was a Ranger a fan and wore an Avery Jersey to every Islander game, this man will invest in this team substantially if he knows his real estate project will make him money…because this team and its current lease certainly does not…no matter who he puts on the ice or coaching the team.As a business owner myself I think the guy is extraordinary for enduring this as long as he has.
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With the same product on ice, after year one there will be 11,000 in the Lighthouse as well. New York is a baseball town, and Citi Field couldn;t even sustain sellouts for one year after the one field product crashed.
The Devils built a state of the art facility in newark, there are thousands of seats that go unsold.
If Wang let’s the fanbase deteriorate any further, it won’t matter what is built, the only time it will be filled will be for Rangers games, Billy Joel and the WWF
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Blizzard says: ….Dont teams who make the playoffs make more money? Hello? I have always kind of supported Wang. But it is becoming clearer that ultimately he is holding The Islanders hostage in a bid to develop the NYMC site. If he had a winner, things would be easier for him in that regard. I know Wang is regarded as the savior of the franchise by many and rightly so………but at what price?
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bergie20 says:
larry is absolutely right. the team has to actually start trying to win. right now they aren’t and that’s why i’m losing interest in this team. they need to start spending in free agency or we’re never going to get over the hump.
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Gary P says:
Agreed but the current fact is the three quarters of the current prospects won’t be playing in the NHL in a few years. All they are is inexpensive fillers for now. Our forth line has been playing great I believe because Park is there Move him up to 2nd line as winger w franzy and bergy. I would dare to say first and move moulson down.
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MHOUS says:
I am tired of Garth as well. He is an excuse maker. He now uses that he wants the youth to develop and wants to do nothing to interfere. It is a good premise but one he hides behind so he does not have to do anything to improve. He is a joke and unfortunately we all have to suffer.
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Eric N. says:
I have to agree with 1 and 23. Chris, more and more you are sounding like someone with an ax to grind. What has changed since august that nine games in you are killing Wang and snow every chance you get. It is getting tiresome to read. You applauded the signing of rolo and biron. Now you question it. You mock snow for not signing top level talent when you have recognized in the past the difficulty in doing so due to NVMC. 9 games into season 2 of the rebuild you write as if you expected dramatic improvement when prior to the season you cautioned your readers against expecting it. You have repeatedly stated you have to be real bad to get real good. Personally, although the first 9 games have been frustrating at times, those 3rd period leads also are cause for some optomism in that with the exception of the Montreal game the team has been more than competitive against top teams like Pitt, Boston, Washington and a decent Carolina team. So if you don’t have an ax to grind, please explain why the change?
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neologizer says:
Hate to disagree but The Isles are all about the stadium deal:
The Isles have the smallest and oldest arena in the NHL. They have one of the most onerous leases and generate less money from their arena then anyone in the NHL. They are the only Metro area franchise without a new or renovated stadium.
According to Forbes the Isles revenue is dead last. The team valuation is only above that of Phoenix and less then Wang payed for it (currently 35 mil less).
last year they got $15 mil for TV deal, $23 mil from tickets. THAT doesn’t even pay the current cap bottom scraping payroll.
Last year Isles home attendence was 85% capacity….. The Isles could fill the NVMC EVERY NIGHT and not even cover their paltry payroll.
Put quality on ice: I agree! the only way they can do it is through the drafting cheap labor or (and alot lot of patience and luck) find other revenue streams to buy it(ie new lease, new stadium).
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KO21 says:
CB, what about the fact that Wanger is losing 20,000,000 a year???Isnt that the excuse you have been giving us a while now???It just seems like now that you’re not sponsored by the Isles you’re pulling all the punches…Its good as long as its not personal
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jackb says:
Guys, Wang knew very well how much money this team would lose before he bought it. Get real! He was blinded by the potential he saw in the LH plan. So far he has failed in EVERY way, LH, Team MGT, trades, absurd contract terms, politics. Many NHL teams over the years have gotten new arenas. NONE required a 3.8 BILLION DOLLAR Real Estate deal to become a reality. This whole thing is a big scam and Wang is the scam artist.
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Wang is not being true to the team. i used to think he was, but now I see he is only in it for the real estate. There are lots of owners that don’t make money but do it because they love the team and the sport. I now believe that wang does not care 1 bit about hockey or the Isles. it is just a means to an end. The Isles are at the lowest they have ever been in their history, shame….
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I just think itys horrible to put so much pressure on Okposo…They talk about him as being teh best player on team…Instead of focusing on progressing and contributing when he can he’s got the weight of the world on his shoul;ders…
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Brian B says:
CB…I kind of agree with what comment #50 said. I was shocked when you wrote “I am” at the end of your post. But then again, in all fairness to you, you did say that you wish the Isles signed a top 6 forward or top 4 d-men to make this team more competitive, while not blocking the development of some young guys. So I think I know where you are coming from. And I’m taking what you said more as “don’t make the status of the lighthouse project as an excuse for not going after and paying players.
But the only way Snow is gonna get free agents over here and you know this CB…he’ll have to overpay them. Looking back now, do we wish he overpaid for either Tanguay, Komisarek, or Beauchamin? I don’t think that would have been a wise moves.
We all remember what the Washington GM said about taking time in a rebuild…how is this different? What’s wrong with sucking again and getting a top 5 pick again? Do we really wanna be another borderline playoff team that can’t get out of the first round. I(I know thats better than losing but come on).
I know everyone is frustrated at the way we are losing games, but I think that shows the potential of this team going forward if anything. We are going crazy cause we can’t keep 3rd period leads. Would we rather be a team that just gets destroyed every night like that game against Montreal or like the isles team that we saw last year in december? I don’t.
I’m fine with the state of this team…I wanna see garth go after some free agents this upcoming offseason, and I wouldn’t be surprised if thats his plan.
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If Wang thinks Kate Murray isn’t laughing that not even the 10,000 diehards in the building are willing to “let there be light” or jump on the propaganda machine, he’s clueless. The Islanders must have had PR dreams about full crowds lighting up in support to run on TV, instead it’s become more embarassing then the coupon blimp
The Lighthouse is dead folks. Murray has not even had to pull out the big guns yet, which I am sure she will after she is re-elected. All she has to mention is Meadowlands Xanadu and what that cost taxpayers in NJ.
Not to be mean ,but for those who rally to support Charles project and march to town halls, see if your suport is repaid if it’s built and you want a discount on a lease, or tickets to Opening night. This is not about hockey anymore, it’s about a man who narrowly avoided jail (Sanjay anyone?) that wants one last score before he retires.
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Strummer's Army says:
I have said for a loooong time now I didn’t understand why he couldn’t improve the defense and fix the toughness issue. These are not things you have to break the bank on. Do the Isles have other needs yes but they don’t need to do it all at once, what they do have to do is make some of the improvements so we can see progress and we haven’t.
Stop making your goalies stand on their heads to be in the game behind a horrible defense.
Why did you want to start the year with no d-men to run the PP outside Streit?
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geduffer says:
I hate agreeing with Larry Brooks, but he’s right here. There doesn’t seem to be any effort to ice a real professional team every night. I’m glad I didn’t go for the extra two years last spring when they tried to sucker us into extending for two more beyond this year and there is no chance of me committing to even one more year until mid-August. If no moves are made, then no more me at the games.
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ACIsles says:
Well so much for sticking with the rebuild. less than 10 games in and everyone is complaining again. The team is WAY more competitive this year. I’m not sure what everyone was expecting this year. But this is what rebuilding is we need to continue drafting well and 1-2 years from now we should see improvement. Did you honestly think they would be competing for the playoffs this year??? Wow this site has got real negative of late…. Everyone wants to be like the Pens and Caps minus the bad seasons the had to endure to get where they are. Can’t have your cake and eat it too.
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Ethan K says:
Here’s the problem. The New York Islanders suck at hockey, compared to every other team in the league, minus the Leafs. When you spend the least money, you get the least talent. When you have the least talent, you have the least wins and least exciting team to watch, and sell the least tickets and merchandise. I don’t know how Charles Wang became a billionaire… he clearly doesn’t know how to run this business. Yes, the team needs a new arena, DESPERATELY. But Charles Wang does not care about his hockey team, he cares about making money. If he could make a deal FOR NOW to just rebuild the arena, the team would definitely stay on the Island, and maybe free agents would sign with the team. However, an arena doesn’t draw fans. A winning team does. Let’s get some hockey players next year.
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B-RI says:
They do need to focus on the season. They also need to focus on playing some Defense when we have a lead. Overspeed is great for 2 periods, however we have blown many games because Gordon wants the boys to play the system for 60 minutes. They are then gassed and tired and are easy pickins for opposing teams. Think about it, every game we have blown this season has been in the last 10 minutes or so of each game. The System works, but needs to be changed when we have a lead i nthe third period for us to shut down the opposing team and finish with 2 points.
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Could not have said it better 54.
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Vader says:
You don’t restock a farm system in two drafts, and you don’t do it by throwing money at mid-level free agents who get you to the 7th or 8th spot and a first round exit and mid first round pick. We just went through that, remember? People need to accept that this is going to take a few years and be patient.
I’m sure the FO knows they only have 3 or 4 guys on the club who will still be there in three years. That doesn’t mean they go public and say things like, “Yeah, Franz and Tamby are only here to keep roster spots warm.”
As far as the LH goes, Wang needs a solid offer from somewhere else to force Kate Murray’s hand. Otherwise he stays right where he is and she dictates the scope of the LH project
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kevin27NYI says:
BBN # 49
if the lighthouse goes through, wang will open up the bank and get a real team out there. i dont know why you think he wouldnt..
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isles316 says:
I understand the feeling for putting players around Okposo and Tavares but tell me who is or was out there? Havlat, Hossa etc. were not coming here.
There was a reason no one signed Tanguay right away and he hasn’t done much in Tampa.There is no reason the Isles should sign anyone. They have Weight, Park, Sim, Hunter, Sutton etc. to help bring the kids along.
There is no reason the Isles should try to finish in 11th rather than 15th. It won’t help the future of this team.
We all knew going into this rebuild that we were 5-7 years away from being a good team and 3-5 to being decent. We all need to be patient as hard as it is.
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AZS says:
I really think it is all about the Lighthouse.
The reality is no UFA of note would dare come here for fair market value because of the substandard playing facilities. Then if the Isles over payed for a guy (ie Yashin) they would be killed for that anyways. Sounds like a no win.
I think if/when the Lighthouse deal is approved or if the Isles get something built locally then you’ll see Wang put more money into the team.
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I would agree that there is no reason the team should try to finish 15th instead of 11th IF THE ISLANDERS WERE NOT CHARGING NHL TICKET PRICES. I HAVE INVESTED (HA!) almost 8K in tickets for the priviledge of watching NHL QUALITY HOCKEY. Thank God I appreciate the game enough to enjoy the talent on the OPPOSING teams. Wang owes it to his paying customers to put out a quality product. 5-7 years from being a good team? Why not 10-15 years?? I would love to work for that company. No accountability.
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Will C. says:
This is about a rebuild, if anyone is angry it should be about just one or two capable extra signings that are not being made, until the core gets better. In a rebuild its gonna be rough and we tried to force the process with too many mid level vets. It got us to the playoffs and got us some exciting times. But you got to start over again. I don’t want to end up like the blackhawks next year. The need to shed about 12 million to HOPE to keep their core together because of too many vet signings. We just need a couple to take some pressure off KO, JT, and Streit.
Stop ragging on Witt. He doesn’t fit the new system, we get it. Sometimes he should be sat down, but the guy busts his ass and signed an extension with a team who knew was not contending for a Cup. Give him some credit for his Islander Pride.
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IslesPassion21 says:
This site is brewing negativity towards the owner who is trying to save the franchise. I am not surprised at whats happening his season and neither should you, Chris. Lets not start “acting” naive, as if we didn’t see this coming. With that being said it’s painful to watch right now. As of now, KO isn’t scoring goals, Bailey isn’t doing much of anything and what happened to the, elite, D-Man we had last year in mark Streit? I hope these guys can get on a roll…
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If the Isles collapse ONE MORE TIME in the third period like last night, it’s time to fire Gordon.
I don’t care that the players like him. I don’t think he’s shown any particular skill at maximizing what talent he has. And I wouldn’t hold onto him based on the fear he might go elsewhere and be successful. He’s doing nothing here. (Note: Who cares that Laviolette won the Cup? He still got fired again and isn’t even coaching now.)
Tortorella is using two rookies on defense. Does anybody believe Gordon would be having the same results with Gilroy and Del Zotto?
We lack credibility on the bench. Devils have Lemaire. Rags have Tortorella. Snow should do whatever he can (read: overpay) to get Bob Hartley on board. I can’t believe he’d be as bad as Gordon.
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If players like Witt campoli guerin n more each year cannot play fir the isles cause they have a “different” coach… Then fire the coach. It’s hard enough to get anyone to play for isles you can’t afford to be unloading players that are good players. Bill guerin would likely lead this team in goals if he was here. I’ve never seen a coach who had a system that didn’t allow for cup winning hard nose players like guerin n Witt. This is absurd.
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jaymz27 says:
I don’t agree with CB or Larry “Ranger lover” Brooks. Think long term!!! The Islanders need another top pick in next year’s draft. That is the only way this organization can aquire talent. Top free agents aren’t exactly knocking down the door to come to the Islanders. Snow could have overpaid for some middle of the road free agents and the Isles could have battled for the 8th seed in the playoffs, fall short and end up with a 12-15 pick in the draft.
Or he could stand pat, suffer another bad season, get a top 3 pick, draft another almost sure thing and attack the free agent market next season, hopefully the Lighthouse is a go, and the salary cap comes down and some teams are forced to unload some decent players.
That is when Wang has to open up the wallet and Snow has to land Ilya Kovalchuk. He has to sell this team to Kovalchuk, sell him on what they are building, sell him on playing in NY, sell him on the fact that the largest Russian community in the world outside of Russia is 30 minutes away from the Coliseum. When was the last time he had some good borsht in Atlanta. And of course, offer him the most money!!!!
Add another defenceman, 2 veteran fowards with some size and or speed that can score 20 goals, bring up de Haan, Trevor Smith, Joensu, and Hamonic. This will allow this young team to develop and be competitive over a long period of time. Remember, Pittsburgh is in our division. They were built this way and they will be an elite team for a long time.
I believe Snow and Wang have a plan here and they are sticking to it. I respect that and as a life long Islander fan I am willing to be patience and see them build this the right way. Milbury never stuck to a plan and look what happened. His plan of trading away young talent is why this team is where it is right now.
Patience Islander fans!!!!! Patience!!
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tmertz says:
Some of you need to get it through your thick skulls that:
1) The Isles will never make money in the NVMC
2) The county will never build a new NVMC because it can’t afford it
3) No one is going to buy this team and build a new arena at a cost of hundreds of millions of their own dollars without some sort of deal that makes them money. The Isles are not that deal, and never will be.In short, no Lighthouse (or similar), no Isles in NVMC.
I’m baffled that there are people who think that anyone would be willing to buy the team and hemorrhage money.
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tmertz,
The team loses money because it has the worst lease in professional sports. I’m sure that when Wang renegotiated it ended up favorable for the Isles, and in return the Lighthouse will pay tax dividends. A great team in that venue, with that lease loses money.
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I thought it was supposed to be like this. We were supposed to suffer to endure the rewards in years to come. To rebuild from the ground up. Who are we supposed to surround KO and JT with? Has-beens who have no future with the team? Weren’t we all expecting these types of seasons and supposed to deal with it? Aren’t we following the Pitt/Caps/Chi model? Why is it that when we see a bit of failure on the ice (that of which we’re supposed to expect for 3-4 years, and as far as I knew were behind the idea) we cant deal? Suck it up. Look at the big picture. Yield and overcome.
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I hate to say it, but the team just isn’t run very well right now between the owner, GM and coach.
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We definetly need to suck, however you can’t suck to the detriment of the develoment of the new core (JT, KO, Franzy, Bailey). All you need is a threat, someone who probably will not have a future, but can help relieve the pressure. ie- not Jon Sim.
I think this team will greatly improve with Trent Hunter back who will legitimize the 2nd line. That may be the answer there. -
islesfan999 says:
I do not mind losing this year. I mind not being a tough team. We have young players who need a true Enforcer to make sure things do not get outta hand. We should trade Park, Hunter, Witt, Sim and try and get an enforcer. We obviously need more skill but that will come this draft. Bring in some size so we are tougher to play against
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CM says:
Isles will start winning. In Isles years past the team was not built correctly. We just have to have the patience. Of course its hard for us generational fans. Wang poured money into Yashin, Peca, DiP and others..even into the coliseum. Now people are thinking he is cheap. The original strategy did not work. Now we seem to be going the same route as if we were an expansion team. This is a new team. Year 1 started last year. Are you telling me you wouldn’t try the same? In the off season was their anyone worth the over paid price? I remember most of agreeing that it was ok to pass on some free agents. Therefore, is what Wang and Snow doing really wrong?
However, the team needs a new area and any new area needs infrastructure and business to create growth surrounding it 24/7. Wang is a business man and he wants to make money. Is that wrong? What is going to go there instead?, something else which will take another 10 years to straighten out, and I bet it will be half as nice.
ToH approve the LHP. Fans need some hope that their team will still be there. It is truly tiring. Can’t imagine what Wang is going through. Only a true fan would get it and I don’t think Larry Brooks is a true fan. -
Well said CM. People are complaining that we need to sign a slew of FA’s and the team isnt ran correctly. Im baffled that nobody realizes that the Islanders took that approach already. It got us 4 1st round losses. Yet, when preaching alternative strategies to the rebuild, people still declare that we were a suffering franchise when we “signed” aucoin, Witt, Kozlov, Satan, etc… “traded” for Yashin, Peca, Smyth, Hamrlik, Ninnimaa etc….IT DID NOT WORK! The only thing Garth Snow had of value when he took over this team was Rick Dipietro and Kyle Okposo. He tried putting a winner on the ice for every1 by attempting to sign high quality, character type FA’s. THEY DONT WANT TO COME HERE! How many times does it have to be said? Take the blinders off
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Phil says:
I am so happy to finally hear from all you Isles fans who are also disgusted with the status quo. I was beginning to worry that I was the only one who thought this entire franchise was no different from the Long Island Ducks baseball team. Just there to entertain the kids, throw some birthday parties, give throw Sparky out there for a walk through, and tell the fans to light it up with their phones. Opposing teams and their fans must laugh when they come to an Islanders home game. And don’t blame this on the building being old. Yes, it’d old, but we could be doing much more with it, and also with the team. I as a fan am insulted, and so should everyone else.
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Steve says:
I can understand that Wang is handcuffed with a bad lease, but can’t he buy out the lease with Nassau county ( not condemning it) when he builds a new arena somewhere else (assuming LH gets rejected)? Also, I think it will be very tough for him to sell the land around NVMC that he buys from Nassau county for $1 (for 130 or 140) and sell it for a profit (such as 1 million per acre) to recoup his losses even if he gets LH. I also do agree with Larry Brooks that the Islanders should try to put the best product on the ice to bring hope ( I was screaming profanity when I heard they blew a 2 goal lead to Washington on Saturday night). Perhaps Wang should sell the team to a guy who wants to keep the team in the NYC area and who wants to develop real estate.
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If the Islanders went out and signed free agents for the sake of being a little better, then what will happen in 2 or 3 years when we have to resign Okposo, Bailey, Tavares? We would sign them and have no room to actually add anyone else, or we become a cap mess.
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I’d just like to see what happens in the next 1-3 years when it’s time to PAY these young guys, KO, JT.
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I wasn’t going to post on this thread because it’s nothing I hadn’t posted all year. But I would like to add, for those who talk about “losing $20M per year” that he loses it to people he’s in bed with.
He’s never once tried to terminate the lease.
This has never been about hockey. Hell, his ridiculous plan doesn’t even give us a new coliseum… just RENOVATED.
It’s YOUR COLISEUM!!! Do you really need 5 rinks on your land. Do you need a state of the art Sports Medicine Facility on YOUR LAND. Do you need a minor league baseball complex ON YOUR LAND.
Do YOU need an extension to Charles Wang’s Marriot ON YOUR LAND?
Do YOU need million dollar condo’s (aka AFFORDABLE HOUSING) on YOUR LAND?
Jeezus people WTFU!
Do some research on the guy… read about his history with CA. Read about what he did to execs from the companies he took over. Read about his EXIT. How he and Sanjay cooked the books. Read about the NEPOTISM.
At least Millstein and Gluckstern identified the enemy… they didn’t crawl in bed with it… and then cry when they found out they got an STD.
Too bad Snider can’t own two franchises. But maybe he can send Wang a copy of Atlas Shrugged. -
art says:
#78 -Great post everyone read it? Larry Brooks is a great observer and talented writer, but he apparently thinks someone is going to rescue the Isles and build them an arena and folks are going to be able to afford tickets in this corporate dead market with either a winning or losing team. The Light House is the only way to keep this team in the area and that includes Bklyn and Queens. Yea we should concentrate on hockey but the two ton guerilla in the room is the LH.
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JackD#89, I think that every Isles fans concern.
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I believe a renovated, Coliseum, means it will be gutted out and will be like a brand new arena. That is what I expect and I hope.
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Harold C says:
There is no more patience to give these clowns. We have been rebuilding since 1995, only to see Pickett, SMG and now Wang hold up the fans as they all attempt to extort money from us under the guise of attempting to “build a champion”.
Wang is as much to blame here as Spano. I dunno about you guys, but it’s becoming clearer to me that the Islanders, as we have known and loved them for years, are gone. Let’s say Wang does get his development signed off on as currently configured – what does that do for the on ice product as far as talent evaluation?
Zero.
All it guarantees is Wang gets richer.
In summation, I have soured on the whole thing. I have no faith anything would get better with a LDH in place, other than getting a renovated arena. Is it worth that just so the team stays? Dunno… would any of you stay in a bad relationship if you kept getting crapped on? Because that is exactly what Wang is doing, he’s pooping on our heads and expects us to thank him for the hat.
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Joey303 says:
JP #90 – RIGHT ON!!! Im glad someone finally said it
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With all due respect to Brooks and to Chris, others have been writing about this for some time. Mark Herrmann had a column last year about how Wang needed to do more than ice a last place team. BD Gallof wrote over the summer about how Wang “owed” the teams’ fans as a reward for supporting the LHP (along with our patience). No one is saying to sign every FA that’s out there. But Geez, throw us a bone.
“Kyle Okposo (drafted while Neil Smith was GM)”- while technically true, by putting this in there that way you are encouraging people to give him all the credit for drafting Kyle… which you yourself have corrected I cant even count how many times! That really doesnt make a lot of sense to me.
The point is, Garth Snow did not draft Kyle Okposo. That’s why I wrote “(drafted while Neil Smith was GM)” not “drafted thanks to the genius scouting acumen of Neil Smith.” CB