PRICE HIKE + LOW EXPECTATIONS = SMALL CROWDS
Don’t blame the old barn for poor ticket sales
CB at FANHOUSE: The “NHL Cycle” weekly recap (NYI)
EDITOR’S NOTE: The next SNY “Islanders Interactive” fan call-in show is set to be recorded on Tuesday at 12:15 pm. Stay tuned for final details later in the day.
There are plenty of times when the Islanders’ failure to finalize an arena development deal appropriately comes into play when discussing the franchise’s shortcomings.
However, just as fans are not lining up to buy tickets, it is impossible to buy into the recent team-fed propaganda that the Islanders’ existing attendance problem has anything to do with the state of their arena.
That’s because the notion is complete nonsense.
In a small article about the Islanders’ attendance buried in Newsday the day after Thanksgiving (subscription required), general manager Garth Snow said the following:
There are a lot of ingredients as to why it is what it is. I think the building is a part of it, but winning plays a part as well.
Snow only got the lack of winning part right. There are three “ingredients” that have combined for a nosedive in attendance this season:
1. The Islanders raised ticket prices, in some cases significantly enough to turn off season subscribers, partial plan holders and the individual game buyers. According to a recent report, Islanders’ over-the-counter prices are now four dollars higher than the NHL average despite a roster at the salary cap floor.
2. Without the gift of the Summer of Tavares, the Islanders in 2010 may have tinkered with their defense, but did nothing on even a borderline-”wow” level to improve the team.
3. The poor economy, which has a lot of people thinking twice about spending big cash on sporting events.
It was the perfect spitstorm.
The math is really simple. Other than brokers buying up blocks of season packages so they could get first crack at tickets for “The Wall,” Dave Mathews, Taylor Swift and other in-demand concerts, the Islanders had little reason to expect a jump in attendance. By the home opener (not sold out), the team was already offering seats at drastically reduced prices. The Islanders also offer promotions like the Family Fun Pack, but these often come across like whims, instead of long-term strategy.
Fact is, with a small season subscriber base, attendance would still be down from recent seasons even if the Islanders were playing NHL .500 hockey at the quarter-pole. It would still be down if Kyle Okposo and Mark Streit were healthy. Tickets would still be readily available on StubHub for as low as $6. With most seats face valued at $65 – $150, the Islanders (like the rest of the NHL) are not a walk-up business. Teams usually do not sell 5,000 tickets on the day of a game, like in Major League Baseball. If the Islanders move 2,000 on gamenight, including Loudville and any other bargains, it is justifiable cause for celebration.
If the Islanders really cannot fully comprehend why attendance is down, perhaps they could look back to 2001 at the effect of adding Chris Osgood, Adrian Aucoin, Alexei Yashin and Michael Peca to the roster and a charismatic newcomer named Peter Laviolette behind the bench. Averaging an announced 9,000 over Thanksgiving weekend nine seasons later? It’s not the decrepit building’s fault. The building was decrepit in 2001.
Yes, winning means a lot. So does trying harder to put a winning team on the ice. The Islanders chose to stick with the very slow and often unsteady rebuild, which could still turn out to be the right move some year. But the organization should not blame the dismal attendance on anything but the real reasons why.
Going forward, let’s hope the Islanders stick to their “no excuses” mantra off the ice as well. Their only concern should be fixing the problem and bringing fans back into the building to support the team.
NOTES
As reported by Katie Strang, Jack Hillen and Andrew MacDonald have resumed skating with the team…Josh Bailey suffered what the team has termed a “minor pectoral strain” while playing for Bridgeport over the weekend and is listed as out day-to-day.
Brian Compton of NHL.com and I hope you will call in on Tuesday from 12:15 – 12:45 pm as we record the latest episode of our “Islanders Interactive” call-in show. No pressure, but the broadcast is the only one of its kind on the air or on the web for Islanders fans. It’s only as good as you make it. Stay tuned for final details, posted later in the day.
Tomorrow, November 30th, SOCIAL (across the street from the Coliseum) is hosting a special event for hockey fans. For just $50 – a special price exclusively for Point Blank readers - included are Islanders game tickets, a three-course meal from Danny Gagnon of “Top Chef” and personal visits to your table by center Rob Schremp and defenseman Andrew MacDonald. Autograph requests and the taking of photographs are highly encouraged.
Again, for 50 bucks, you get a ticket to a game – face value: more than $50 – a visit with a pair of current Islanders and a great meal. Not a bad way to spend a night. Seating is very limited by SOCIAL so every fan can have enough time to meet with Schremp and MacDonald. The event is open to all ages, but you’ll want to book your seat at the table today.
For reservations call 917.848.8984 and ask for Max.
Or email max.feinberg@socialsportskitchen.com
Mention Point Blank for discount
Comments relevant to this post are welcomed.
118 Responses to PRICE HIKE + LOW EXPECTATIONS = SMALL CROWDS
Don’t blame the old barn for poor ticket sales
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Mikamakela says:
Of course snow blames the building . If he came out n spike the truth he would of been fired like this sort of statement “isle fans aren’t as interested in paying big $$ for a last place as we had hoped. Therefore, this offseason, we will raise prices again on the few folks who still buy tickets that don’t seem to mind rooting for a terrible team”
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Dan says:
I read Garth’s comments in Newsday & agree with Chris 100%. Snow can try to sell their propoganda but it doesn’t stick anymore.
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Chris M says:
As a previous season ticket holder, part of the problem lies with the Islanders themselves. It’s tough to attend all the games and there is absolutely no resale value due to various Isles promotions. Every game is a new promotion. Geez, there was a promotion to celebrate a new Tim Hortons. Even with the “discount”, I paid $70 per seat to sit in 207. On the nights I couldn’t go to the game, I’d use Craigslist to sell my tickets. I would regularly get offers of $20 per ticket in addition to the free parking.
Outside of knowing where your seat is each game, there is absolutely no reason to get a season subscription. The Isles kill the resale value to where your tix are virtually worthless. Plus, there are no shortage of tickets available through other outlets like StubHub.
Some season ticket holders will rationalize the Isles promotions as “filling the building” and “making for a better experience when they go to games”. For most, it’s gotta burn seeing your $95 face value tix going for next to nothing.
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NHL fan says:
Everything you wrote is so true. I guess you really do not want those press credentials.
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Rachel says:
Thank you for this post!!!!
Winning = more fans in the seats. It’s such a simple formula. Didn’t the Isles have around 20 sellouts in 2001-2002? -
barbara says:
After 36 years,will probably NOT get our season tickets again.Why? I sit in my very expensive season seats while next to me sits someone who paid $6. I don’t get calls back from customer service because they change regularly. Our long term support of this team gets us nothing special and I watch loss after loss! No word from our owner, no updates on a building or ANY plan for the future…NOTHING to keep us in those very expensive seats.
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PTA says:
Right on CB! Fans will come if the team shows that they are trying to put a good product on the ice. Instead, they have sent the opposite signals in the guise of “sticking with the plan.” It is tough to continue to spend on this team. Ultimately you do want to have a good time if you go but this is sometimes hard to watch. I can’t get over the ticket prices either. I spent $100 to sit second level corner to see the Isles play the Avs. To me it’s crazy to expect a family to go consistently when hockey tix are close to NFL prices!
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I should note that my rep Marc G. was excellent. It’s not his fault that he’s selling a losing proposition.
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jmbella249 says:
My family enjoys going to Islander games. I can’t bring myself to spend all that money when the team cannot win a game. It’s not worth it & it has nothing to do with the building. Start winning & we’ll come back!
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Onesinceforty says:
CB,
Hoping to find reporting like this is why I bang on your site 10 times a day. That said, is it fair to say that with the tone of this entry you are giving up on the notion of regaining your Isles credentials? You are not a puller of punches but what we really want is you to regain access. If you are not getting re-instated then by all means, “Fire For Effect” as they say in the Navy. -
As a former season-ticket holder (Section 336), attendance has been declining ever since John Pickett chose to put all games on cable in 1985. A lot of youngsters still didn’t have cable in the 1980s and instead of being ticket-buying hockey fans today, they’re basketball fans. Rangers-Islanders used to be back-page material in the City tabloids; now it may only get one-third of a page tucked inside the sports section. The decline has been long and steady and it’s not just the losing. As with any product, customers respond to management contempt by patronizing the competition.
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KP says:
That 2001-02 season was the best for a multitude of reasons. First and foremost, it was my first season as a STH. Second, the team was improved with the additions CB talked about and gave the fans a pretty exciting year. That team could’ve done a lot of damage if KJ and Peca didn’t get knocked out with season ending injuries.
The fans benefitted the most though. I had seats in the upper corner, 317, row E. For that year, the ticket cost per seat was $20 and you got free parking. Face value was $38 for the seat. The next season, it became an “Upper VIP” seat. Face value went to $85. Meanwhile, if you sat in row F, it was $55. The team hasn’t gotten any better since and the ticket prices haven’t either. When you’re a STH, you get spoiled. I hated travelling to other cities because I had to pay full price. Now that I can’t afford a full season package because I have two kids under 3, I won’t go to games unless someone gives me seats because the prices are, in my mind, out of control.
Also, when the on ice product is as atrocious as ours is this year, stay home with the family or blow $200 to watch lousy hockey?
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sean says:
Well I wouldnt mind paying if we had a new building and A owner that does not get involved in hockey operations. I can tell You a new building would help in a way. Draw free agents and add the right players to rebuilding process.
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GM says:
Amen. I first purchased season tickets in that Yashin, Peca, Aucoin, Osgood season and this current season is the first where I did not renew. The building has nothing to do with my non-renewal. My kids would have fun if they played at that outdoor rink in Christopher Morley Park. It was the drastic price increase after last season’s bottom five finish that chased me away, topped by an unfathomable demand that I pay for my tickets last April, and incredibly poor customer service by the ticketing group. Turns out to be the best decision I have ever made, as I have now picked up tickets for four games on stubhub this season for a fraction of the season ticket price.
It really is sad…I want to support this team and I would give up my stubhub discount in a heartbeat to see my financial support go directly to the team, but for the fact that I feel so abused by the business and management sides of this organization. -
ClarkGillies says:
I think Garth did more harm than good with his ban. You can be totally honest and don’t have to candycoat anything. This front office doesn t get it. I gave up my season tickets but would be the first one in line if Garth was fired and we had someone who could build a real team. Fans could care less if the team played in a toxic dump as long as they are winning, wake up clowns.
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PotvinRocks says:
No one wants to come out to see a loser. Look at the Mets. they don’t draw as well as the Yanks.
The fans are sick of seeing a loser and the fans are sick of being neglected. They have done many things like firing Billy Jaffe and rejecting your creditials, that make hard core fans mad. My wife is is only going to hockey games because I make her go. 14 game winless streak is enough to turn everyones stomack. -
Derek A says:
Spot on CB spot on. This team does need a spark but it would be a deathly travesty to sacrifice the rebuild to do it. Why not sell 10$ tickets in the upper tier? Give tickets away to the boy scouts/youth groups? Fill up the barn and LETS GO ISLANDERS! ! !!!
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James says:
Winning cures everything and fills the building, but the Islanders aren’t winning so that’s not really the cure here.
The Islanders should give strong consideration to DRASTICALLY cutting ticket prices– by half or more across the board, and refund the difference to season tix holders. As it stands, I am able to go to mid-week games and sit in the first five rows for ~$20-30.
Wang is a businessman; I’m sure someone there has done an analysis of what the average customer spends at the arena. I would think he would stand to gain more by getting 12,000+ in the building, versus the 4,000 or so I saw on Thanksgiving Eve.
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Drive 4 Five says:
Can Snow just go take a FRIGGIN hike and get lost! This CHOOCH just doesn’t get it!
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Joe says:
Chris, thanks for saying what needed to be said about the Islanders attendance problems. I fully agree with it having a lot to do with the ticket price increases in this bad economy and the salary cap floor product on the ice.
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section 320 rocks says:
Nice job with this CB!! Happy you called him out on those statements of utter nonsense!! Even without the credentials your still our voice!! Keep it up dude!! GO ISLANDERS!!!!
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James (19), RIGHT ON!
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Tex in the City says:
When the Islanders lost their 9th game in a row, I thought wow, that is more than 10% of the season down the drain. I then pledged that if they lost 18 games in a row (double the current streak at the time) I would give up on the Islanders for good.
I’m 33 now, and have been an Islanders fan for pretty much as long as I can remember. I listened to the Easter epic on a handheld radio with my sheets pulled tight over my head so my parents didn’t know I wasn’t sleeping, and then ran out into the living room screaming when they won. I watched every game of the ’93 playoffs, and wanted Hunter’s head when he went after Turgeon. I went to every home playoff game the Islanders have had in the 2000′s, and probably never had as much fun at a game as I did in ’03 vs the Leafs.
Trust me the state of the Coliseum had nothing to do with my love of the team. I have even played hockey there, and as grotesque as the locker room and the boards were, it was still exciting to be on the same ice as so many of my hockey heroes.
Yet on Friday, when I found out the Islanders had beaten the Devils to halt their losing streak at 14, I was not relieved as I thought I should have been. I was annoyed that the team had not put me out of my misery by losing 18 straight. They can’t even do that right.
What keeps the Islanders fans from showing up at games is that the product stinks. The owner stinks. The GM stinks. The Islanders have been a source of nothing but disappointment for fans since they almost made the Finals in 93. There is only so much punishment someone will take, even an Islanders fan, before they say enough’s enough.
Charles Wang – Instead of finding ways to get around the salary FLOOR when other teams 40 miles away are trying to find ways of getting around the salary CAP, maybe you should put a halfway decent f’ing team on the ice.
Then trust me, fans will show up, as they have every time you give them hope. Even me.
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CM says:
Noone knows the future of this team. Re-build as become muddled, LHP in the dark, and recent unexplainable firings in offseason are huge factors. If Management does no explan what is going on why should the fans care. Only reason Isles fans care because it is an emotional investment and will cheer for the crest on the jersey. Season has become a train wreck.
Fan base will wake up and come once Management realizes they need to become more transparent. The Isles can be made a case in any University 101 Business Course, “This not how to run a business.”
PS. Snow….what about a New Coach!?!?!?! -
Jim Clark says: I think the vast majority of the problem is the team. But I don’t think the arena helps. A Rags fan co-worker told me last week that his son is an Islanders fans. But the intelligent son doesn’t go to many games because the seats in the 300 section aren’t comfortable for a tall person “like you are” (I’m 6’2″). He’s right. Especially for a big crowd, it is uncomfortable when people are in the seats next to you. Plus going to the rest rooms/food vending lines during intermission is a hassle. Not that having a brand, new facility like “The Rock” in beautiful Newark would boost average per game attendance by 5,000.
But even with good, exciting teams there are even traditional hockey markets like Denver having problems selling tickets. Probably a combination of the economy, high prices that were supposed not to happen with the salary cap and the affordability of big screen/HD tvs.
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dose says:
Dang right! I still believe Islander fans would come out in droves to see a competitive team if they played in Dutch Lane sump.
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Tex i feel like you read my mind
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IslesRock says:
Thanks Chris for telling it like it is. Also, post #4 is spot on and that is why I gave up my season package. How do the Islanders not see this too? Or do they just not care?
Chris, the old barn was decrepit well before 2001. In fact, it was a dump during the cup years too. As a former season ticket holder, I remember all of the sell outs when the Isles were run as a proud organization. It makes me sick when the Isles use the building for all of their problems, including free agents. I have said this before, I spoke to a player about this and he laughed. They spend so little time at the building. The building sucks more for the fans. He told me they care about money, playing for a team that has professional management and a winning strategy. Three things the Isles are lacking now. He said they all love Long Island too.
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I agree and thought the same thing when I saw Garth’s quotes in the paper since I am a Newsady subscriber. In addition to the poor product on the ice, the Islanders inexplicably do things to alienate their dwindling fan base such as not renewing Jaffe and being overly concerned about what CB is writing when they have lost 12 in a row and fired their coach. I wrote to the team on both these issues and got cut and paste responses. I don’t understand how they can be so out of touch with their fans. The whole NHL looks at the Islanders as a joke and somehow Garth and Wang think everyone else is wrong.
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John89 says:
Seriously, the arena should not be to blame for poor attendance at all. Look at the Mets, they have a brand new stadium but the team was a complete joke this season so people did not show up. If new stadiums or arena’s really made the difference, Citi Field should have been packed every night. But the team was sub-.500 and there was turmoil with the coach and front office. There just seems to be something about the orange and blue that brings trouble. Islanders, Mets, Knicks, all have had their own share of problems in the recent past.
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Bob E. says:
I do believe winning gets more people at games. But you need to be consistent winner. You cant win 5 games then expect stadium to be filled with fans. Ticket prices are a bit high considering the players we putting on the ice.
Lets see isles build off the win vs devils. And youll see that sub 9K attendance work it way back over 12K or more.
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One more thing, how can the Islanders not even put anyone on with Francessa to tell “their” side of the story after CB went on and made Garth look petty and small. This organization simply hides from their fans and refuses to answer for their actions. Then they wonder why people won’t just trust that they know what they are doing.
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Vive la Poutine! says:
Tex in the City (24): I couldn’t have said it better myself being that I’m also 33 years of age. My personal top three moments are the Easter Epic, the ’93 playoffs and the Shawn Bates penalty shot. There are countless moments where I swore to myself that I was done with this team, but you know where I was from 1:00 to 3:30 on Black Friday? Not in some Walmart or Best Buy, rather right in front of the TV watching NJD-NYI. I guess I just can’t abandon this team no matter what.
As for the attendance woes, I don’t blame my fellow NYI fans one bit for staying away. It’s like being on an airplane – There will be a half dozen people in a row and nearly all of them will have paid a different price. I don’t doubt for a second that the fanbase is there, and the Renaissance season of 2001-02 attests to the fact that the fans will come if you put a good product on the ice.
PS – I’m actually going to see the NYI in person for the first time this season … This Friday at MSG … Draw your own conclusions …
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Alex says:
Amen CB. I had the exact same reaction when I read Snow’s quotes in Newsday, using the building as an excuse for attendance. The building has absolutely NO effect on whether I go to games. The main driver of whether I’ll come watch the team is the product on the ice. With a cap-floor roster which is half injured, it is very tough to come by a win, let alone several home wins. This turns people away, especially with raised ticket prices in this economy. What happens next? The attendance keeps going down as more and more people stop showing up. Ultimately, the atmosphere at isles games now feels like that of high school hockey game, and is a big turn-off. Put an exciting product on the ice and the Coliseum will be full once again. Heck, if we had a playoff caliber team, I’d prefer to see a playoff series in the Coliseum over any other arena. The old barn can still rock when the team is winning. Just take a look at the videos from the 2001-02 series vs. Toronto. Hopefully we’ll see that again someday…
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EAF says:
i don’t care about the building. Ice is ice. win games, put real talent on the ice, stop BS the fans and the building will be full and loud.
(i did not renew this year) -
Ct 1970s says:
The team has been better these last three games.New coach, better system. As so many others have said, it isn’t the coliseum that keeps people away. IT still has the best sight lines in the NHL.
All this losing is a problem, but the biggest problem is we have come to realize Mr Wang is not going to spend any more than is required. By so doing he has robbed all fans of the most important item any team has to offer HOPE. No hope no fans. Come forth Mr Wang and explain what you are doing and what you plan to do. -
shlo says:
Right on target.
My friend did not renew his season tickets. Will not spend money on this team the way it is playing. Not because the building is old. -
Dan says:
I have been a season ticket holder for almost 10 years now. I re-upped on the multi year plan they had so I am paid through next season. Believe me it’s not the building at all.
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secmaster420 says:
If they put a winning team on the ice, but building wouldn’t matter. The Penguins sold out Mellon Arena when they were winning, and that building over all was much worse than the Coliseum, even when the Coliseum is full.
I went to the Blue Jackets game. I bought $85 (1st row 300 middle) seats for $36 on Stubhub. What really bothered me was the hike in parking to $10, and the size of the Popcorn got cut in half, but the price went up another dollar to $6.
If they were playing well, it would be worth it. But they aren’t, so its not. I used to have season tickets, and would go to as many games as possible, but now they aren’t worth the money or the effort.
I never thought I’d say that. I’ve been a fan since the first year. The things they’ve done this year have turned me off.
1) Firing Jaffe
2) Firing Trottier
3) Firing Jankowski (sp?) the head scout.
4) Firing Gordon (wasn’t his fault)
5) No news on the Lighthouse or a new arena.I’m just wondering where they’ll be moving to. I’ll probably see more games there than at the Coliseum if they don’t get any better.
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StevieL says:
Spot on CB!
Garth is a puppet! His words mean nothing!
Unfortunately I am now convinced that there is an end game going on with this team! We are weeks away from 2011 and there is nothing going on regarding saving this team or building a new arena by 2015! I have been a fan since the “70′s and it kills me that this team is dying!Lack of direction or management, plus the total lack of respect for the fans leaves no other conclusion!The team will be history or they will be the Hamilton Islanders! Please someone tell me where they are groundbreaking the Isles new arena?? Anywhere! -
Jack says:
Glad to see you’ve finally taken the gloves off CB. I guess you don’t expect to get your credentials back.
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Joe says:
I hate when the building issue comes up as an excuse for the attendance. Garth, please stop assuming your fans are all idiots! The building now is the same building for the past thirty years. I don’t go to a game for the over-priced gourmet food, don’t go for “fan-friendly” entertainment. I go to see a hockey game. Period. You think it’s the building? Ask the NY Mets if the building matters. 2nd year and they were practically giving tix away on Stub Hub. They were getting 15k per game.
You want people in the building? Last week after you fired Scott Gordon, you had the gall to come on with Howie and say you had the resources and freedom to improve the team. Get someone to play with Tavares! Ovie has support. Crosby has support. Stamkos, the list goes on. Tavares? P.A. Parenteau. You have the resources? Go do it! -
gary9-19-22 says:
bottom line… if the team is a consistant winner and class organization then the building is a classic old style arena where, even if the amenities are below standard, the crown is close to the action and loud. A place to experience a hockey game.
If we are losers, like we are, then the building is old and decaying.
Class, organization, professionalism and winning attitude go a long way.
Please Mr. Wang, please Garth.. hire the 4 or 5 senior managers needed to properly turn this organization around. Please fund a proper scouting staff. Please spend a little money and dont cheat the salary cap system.
Please Mr Wang.. lay down the attitiude, open the doors to the press, make the Isles relevant, spend the cash and we will come back!!!
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Isles Revamped says:
Two things the Isles need to do is set a target date for the end of this rebuild and put a consistant winning product on the ice.
The only thing a brand new building will truly do is a lure the average fan once and a while for a few years. Put a winning product out their and your fan base will double.
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Stumpy32 says:
I have to weigh in on this. I’m 30, and have been an Isles fan since the late 80s, and a die-hard since I went to Game 4 of the Isles-Caps series in ’93 (Ferraro from Loiselle in double-OT). The Coliseum was, is, and will always be a dump. But to most Isles fans, its our beloved dump. Who the hell cares what the arena looks like? If we wanted new and fancy, regardless of wins and losses, we wouldn’t be Isles fans. The Coliseum rocked in ’93. It rocked in ’02. It rocked during the Cup years. I refuse to accept this line by the organization that its even partially based on the Coliseum that the crowds are small. It’s pretty clear over the last 25 years or so that when the Isles are decent to good, the place will sell out. Regardless of broken seats, Betavision TVs into the late 90s in the upper deck, leaks, nonworking scoreboard, clock radio sound system, whatever. WE WANT TO WIN. THAT’S IT.
The only reason the Coliseum is a problem for any of us at this point is that the organization is using it as a reason to explain away their ineptitude. For most of us, we’d just like to take that excuse away and expose them for the incompetent embarrassments they are.
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Pablo says:
Finally !! You Finally called the Islanders out for what it really is!
After all these years that you have not said what the TRUTH is: It’s not the Building it is the Lack of commitment to $pend and to WIN! Thank You Chris for Saying it like it is!
NO SURRENDER !
The Truth Hurts. -
ken says:
i did not renew my season tickets b/c the plan went up by 15% coming off a bottom 5 season, no new players, no more free parking and lowest salary. i was afraid what the price would be if the isles ever finished in the top 15.
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peter debenedetto says:
It sure seems like they are trying to turn the fanbase off. I went to the game Friday on a whim. My dad and I went looking to just “get in” the building. Two $42 dollar tickets got us where? ROW T in 325. The last three rows don’t even go up on an angle for you to see. THANK GOD a well to doue friend on the team located us and moved us to the 200′s. I felt bad for the people we left behind in the last row, but even worse for the ones that actually paid $120.00 for the seats I inherited. The fans will come if they win and are competitive. The building has nothing to do with it. In fact, the team would be damn impossible to play against when that building gets loud and starts rocking.Ask anyone that played for Toronto, Ottawa, Tampa, and Buffalo. The 9,000 that went were even loud when we beat Jersey.
I don’t trust this ownership/administration. It feels like we are being used until the pucks hit the fan. Very sad. -
geduffer says:
CB, you’re not going to get your credentials back by telling the truth on them. (It kind of reminds me of Harry Truman. When they said give ‘em hell Harry he said “I don’t give ‘em hell. I just tell the truth on ‘em and it makes them feel like they’re in hell.”). I gave up the full season and at the last minute took a partial because it got tough to think about staying away. It was my mistake. I should have just flipped them the bird and walked away. I’m just waiting for the opportunity to move to Tampa, where they have a GM who has a plan and knows what he’s doing. (Also the team has reasonable season ticket packages.) The building is a scapegoat (as the coach was) for the failings of the Sunshine Boys.
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Travelchic59 says:
Several people have already mentioned it, but when season ticket holders like myself find they are sitting next to someone who paid $20 dollars for their seat, it makes me rethink my desire to renew for next year.
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management needs to WAKE UP to the real value of their product. Look no further than stubhub as CB said. I got tickets to the thanksgiving eve game for $9 before fees. NINE! They were 35 dollar tickets face value. You need to know what your product is worth. It didn’t just start this season, the Islanders started pricing their most loyal fans out of the Coliseum years ago, and this year it really reached “ridiculous” levels. If the Islander’s don’t start offering “buy 1 get 3 free” deals the attendance will not get any better.
One thing Wang doesn’t understand is “empty seats buy no overpriced concessions.” $9 for a .50 cent beer, $5 for a .10 cent hotdog, thats where you are going to make your money, thats where the highest profit margins are. Cheapest seats should be $10 in the coliseum on most nights. $150 for 200 level seats? where are we MONTREAL!?
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15Cyclones says:
CB,
Couldn’t agree more. the building is not the issue, in fact the Coliseum IMO is the best building to watch Hockey for sight lines. Yes it needs remodeling but the real issue is the product on the ice…
Keep it up… -
Enzo says:
It seems clear to me that Wang is looking to burn this thing to the ground so that he can move this franchise and recoup all his losses.
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valentino says:
The Isles put out more propoganda than North Korea.
Wait, I may be onto something.
The North Korea Islanders.
Long live the supreme ruler Kim Jon Wang! -
Oncesince1940 says:
The Islanders have had terrible attendance for 15 years.
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joey bagodonuts says:
a good comparison would be the chicago blackhawks pre-kane/toews. despite a relatively nice arena, they had some tough years where attendance was awful, and there were times when the arena would have less than 10k in it for a game. but i do believe a new or renovated arena would help long term. if it means giving the franchise stability, which is the number one reason this team can’t draw high price UFA’s, then a new arena will indirectly help ticket sales by improving the product on ice. but first and foremost, you need to win games. thats what will directly put people in the seats.
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Andre says:
Chris, you are so right. I could not have said it better myself. This is what happens when you have an owner who is running the team into the ground. Snow is an arrogant jerk and puppet who probably knows that this is the only management job he will ever get in NHL. I wrote to Gary Bettman about this exact issue and why I think the NHL needs to step in to perserve the integrity of the league as other 29 owners are running professional hockey organizations while Charles Wang is running a “Mickey Mouse” one. I am awaiting Gary Bettman’s response.
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UIF says:
I’ve always felt that if the Islanders were run like the Red Wings, not only would fans pack the building, but FAs wouldn’t mind signing here despite the facilities. I’m sure the facilities are just the cherry on top for FAs not coming here, but it starts with the perception of the team, the strange management decisions, and the results (or lack thereof) over the last 20 years.
In fact, as a fan, I hate all the bells and whistles that were added in the 90s to distract from the dismal product on the ice (It’s tiiiime for the computerized zamboni race! etc.). I don’t need more bells and whistles in a new building that features more distractions. Just put a good product on the ice. I’d sit outside in 15 degree weather to watch the team if they were competitive.
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John says:
Bulls-eye to CB and most of the responses on this board. I’m another season ticketholder who did not renew this year (section 206). While the building is an absolute dump, its condition had nothing to do with my decision to opt-out. It had everything to do with the organization failing to invest in the on-ice product. i told my rep that since the owner refused to invest in the free-agent off-season that, then, neither would i. i made it clear that when charles starts spending again, so will i. my rep–a good guy whom i really feel sorry for since there isn’t a person in the world who could be successful being an isles ticket rep when they don’t give you a legitimate product to market–offered to put garth snow on the phone to prove that the team was serious about spending. i declined. it does not take a brain surgeon to realize that snow has no authority whatsoever in the organization. he is a figurehead with a GM title that makes him look like the emperor without clothes. i know several senior-level execs with another northeast nhl franchise who say they pity garth and that he is a running joke in some inner-sanctum nhl circles. not his fault necessarily but people know he is powerless even though he tries to project otherwise. yes, the isles need a new building. yes, kate murray is doing a horrible job as an elected official with her transparent fillibuster. Makes me think that it might not be the building but that the town and county for some reason won’t get into bed with charles wang. Could it be some of the residue of the mess he left behind at CA? I don’t know. But nonetheless the Islanders are toast not because the building is a disaster but because there is nothing on the roster outside of tavares that is worth watching. charles & co. are getting what they paid for.
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Thanks for finally writing with a little bit of an edge. Garth has done nothing to improve this (AHL) team.
What makes Garth think he knows how to build a NHL championship team “the right way”. He has never seen or been a part of one built in this manner. Winning is the only thing. People would come and pay to watch at “Racquet and Rink” (back in the day) if they were compeititive! -
FPH says:
Garth Snow you are a mess, THE TEAM SUCKS because of YOU and WANG! Wake up…….
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Brian G says:
Everyone is tired of excuses…
We care about the team, not a Mini CityWang sits in silence and does nothing…he should be trying to comprimise the project…knock it down 40%
…instead he strips down the organization to the bare bones and Bettman just takes his side and constantly defends his buddy Wang.Whoever decided to make tickets in the 300′s $65 should be fired….I have been saying for years the last 5 rows in the 300′s should be $10…who raises prices after 3 terrible seasons.
And the Family Fun Pack price goes up every year for the same package:
2008 = 100
2009 = 125
this season = 150The fans are not stupid…by the fans not showing up to games is hopefully making them finally realize this
The Islanders can’t even let the fans keep the goal song….instead a journeyman player suggests a goal song (which is one of the worst goal songs ever) and it gets changed right away, what is wrong with that picture!!!
Start listening to the Fans Islanders Organization. You need to start taking steps to get fans back…To start, giving Chris back his press credentials and changing the goal song back to Gary Glitter would probably be a step in the right direction.
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ronbuzz69 says:
cb i still go games when i can… however i would rather lose money winning than lose money losing , kind of odd but true .. once again they did nothing since coach loviolettes teams !!!!! i luv the old barn!!! GO ISLES…
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rb says:
Kick ‘em when they’re down, huh?
I’m tired of reading about attendance, the lousy building, blah, blah, blah. I want to read about Kevin Poulin and his terrific start in the “A”, or Grabner’s nice start or what Ricky did when he sat out two weeks to come back improved or Comeau’s ineffective play and whether he should be dealt.
As for the attendance, times are tough and if someone can’t or doesn’t want to pay to see a hockey game, I understand that completely and don’t blame ‘em. But I don’t want to see the paper-bag types line up for a “save the team” rally.
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matt says:
You got it right, CB. My top 3 reasons for not spending a dime on this time:
3. The team is not very good.
2. Ticket prices are too high.
1. Garth and all his nonsense.
If these things weren’t an issue, I wouldn’t care if they played their games at the roller rink on Newbridge Road!! -
Chris — Great work. Stay independent. Two questions: (1) How much are the Islanders padding their attendance figures? (2) When will the Islanders file bankruptcy (like the Coyotes) as a way of “greenmailing” the league into taking the team off Wang’s hands — of course, at a price acceptable to Wang?
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HEY CHUCKY IF YOU WIN THEY WILL COME !!!! chris you the man ..
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Ant says:
I wont go to another game until they put a better product on the ice.A fan since the 70′s it is sad to see the team get worse instead of better in a rebuilding stage. They have promising young players, but how can they develop with the garbage they pick up to play with them.Garth if you say you have the resources to spend then do it instead of sitting on your hands and watch us finish at bottom yr in and yr out.
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I guess to sum up succinctly: there is a substantial disconnect between Islanders management and its fan base, and they [NYI mgmt.] have made no effort to address it.
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Petey Pete says:
I really hope Garth Snow and those in the Isles Front Office read this blog regularly. They don’t have to agree, or confirm their readership (for obvious reasons), but I just HOPE they are reading.
Because there is a MASSIVE disconnect between what the organization is selling and what the subscriber base (both past, present, and potential) are buying.
Bless you, CB for all your work.
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#63 James…just beat me to it!
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Scott says:
I hope Snow and/or his minions read this.
Garth, TENDER YOUR RESIGNATION!
Enough already with the nonsense!
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Cold Spring Harbor says:
Chris,
You have it right. Winning brings fans. As for the season ticket holders like myself, we are certainly not appreciated by management. First chance Mr. Wang gets to recoup parking revenue (thanks to Tom Suozzi), he tiers the lots and takes away the season ticket holder privledge. Installment payment plans were first offered with interest and different pricing and then they relented after a barrage of noise (thanks to PointBlank). In short, season ticket holders are the teams annuity and they should be cherished not alienated. Do I really think that the face value of my ticket is $150 on certain nights. They even tiered the Kids Club for more revenue. Where are the season ticket holder access only events that were promised? At least, they finally fixed the bathroom hooks downstairs so that was a nice surprise. -
Time to bring back the Bagel Boss Toss.
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steve says:
cahrles wang has not gotten the gold pot at the end of the rainbow so he is showing his true colors about how much he cares about the isles.jaffe,trottier,ban of botta,jankowski barebones scouting staff no hockey operations people etc etc.this year they could have helped the team with raffi torres and lee stempniak who both signed very affordable deals.you thank your fans by doing all this and to top it off raise tix prices and at salary cap floor with yashin and witt accounting for 5,000,000.
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Frankie D says:
CB, you are right on. When the Islanders were fighting for a playoff spot a few years back the attendance record was way up with the team boasting sellouts nearly every week. I personally went to 21 home games with my son. It was an exciting time, and the barn was in worse shape than it is now. I happen to like the NVMC, you are up close to the action and there are only a few visually blocked seats. Put a winning team out there and you’ll see the barn fill-up.
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robert(staten island) says:
I bought season tickets 2 years in advance(through the 2011-2012 season). I was under the illusion that this team would improve, and the ownership would spend the dollars to do so! Now I don’t enjoy going to the games bacause of the poor product, and selling they tickets is like giving them away for nothing. I feel like I was duped by Wang/Snow, and I am really pissed off!!!
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Phil says:
Thanks for telling it like it is. Snow thinks he is slick, but not too many people believe him anymore.
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islz says:
Please remember that the lighthouse project only calls for a refurbished arena. That says it all.
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Tim F. says:
Al Davis said it best: “Just win, baby.”
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Tony says:
I actually understand Wang’s tight pursestrings–he’s lost enough money and won’t put any additional money into the team. Fine, it’s his team and he can do what he wants.
His mistake was raising ticket prices this season. If I were him, I’d offer a simple 3-tier price for tickets for the rest of the season–any seat in the 100s section should be $40, $30 for the 200s, and $20 for anything in the 300s. Taking in some money is better than taking in no money.
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Hockey Guy in Canada says:
Disagree. The Islanders are no strangers to doing many things poorly and raising ticket prices this year is just another case in point. However, you seem to suggest that you are no longer in favour of a rebuild. You harken back to 2001 as if that is the way to build a team. Remember, that type of excitement only lasts until you fail to win a playoff round. We’ve been down that road. We are still paying for Yashin. Wang should be faulted for being stubborn and for his lack of people skills. Her should be hammered for letting the PR department go into the toilet as if a dialect with the fans didn’t mean squat. However, until a new or refurbished arena allows the Islanders to aquire the money and prestige to fill out a proper NHL roster, you’re only going in circles.
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bossjones15 says:
If the arena offered other things to do besides watching a poorly constructed hockey team lose games on a regular basis sure more people would go. However isn’t going to a hockey game about watching your team compete? Lame excuse Snow.
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Matt says:
I go to hockey games to watch good hockey. I do not go to hockey games because it is a nice venue. Anyone that attends a game because of the venue is not a real fan anyway.
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JD says:
A new or refurbished arena won’t make any difference if the one ice product isn’t any better. The Pittsburgh Pirates are the perfect example. Brand new amazing ballpark with a minor league lineup which of course results in low attendance. The matinee against the Devils should be a wake up call to Wang. That game would have been a sellout if the team was any better and not in the middle of a losing streak.
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Playoffs, did you say playoffs?? By not making the postseason in the last 5 years, it impacts attendance, free-agents from making a commitment here. Snow believes the building is the issue, if there was a chance of winning a cup, free agents would sign even with this barn the way it is..by the way, I like what Snow did on defense but he really rolled the dice with the exception of Grabner for offense.
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James Benson says:
Hey snow, guess what dummy? In the coliseum, all you have to do is buy the loudville tickets, then walk straight down to the front row and find a seat! That’s right, you can sit way up front for 15 dollars. Why you ask? Because nobody is ever at the games, so great seats are always empty and smart people like myself take advantage of it. Your a terrible GM and should blame YOURSELF solely on why ticket sales are declined, not the barn that these boys won 4 cups in.
SNOW MUST GO! -
Eric Cup says:
bossjones – you want other things to do? Go to the mall! Going to a hockey game is supposed to be THE reason to go. If the team stinks and management isn’t even trying to improve the on-ice product, then it shouldn’t matter what other “distractions” are in the building.
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1972 means I'm Old says:
Geez…and I thought attendence was down because all the great public transportation that went from NYC to the NVMC went out of business.
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I agree with post #67 regarding his point on bankruptcy. Wang cannot be this bad of a business man. Everyone on this board can see what the team needs to do to be competitive again, it’s not rocket science. I am sure Wang knows too, but he is clearly not into fixing and spending on the organization anymore. We are all just wasting our energy with ideas to improve. I am sure Wang is looking into some type of exit strategy since there are no real buyers for the team. Or he will wait out the lease, and sell the team and watch it move.
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Shoeless Joe Jackson says:
It’s beyond me that the rah rah crowd here still doesn’t get it, while Wang is no saint, he’s losing millions each year on the team and until a new arena deal is in place that’s the way it’s going to be…winning hockey team or not. It’s so easy to spend other people’s money, isn’t it? If you were in a mutual fund that was losing 20% every year, would YOU keep piling money into it? Maybe you would SELL….except you would come to find out that NOBODY WANTS YOUR STINKIN SHARES. The way to winning for THIS organization is rebuilding, not buying stars. Rebuilding takes TIME. Nobody is lined up to buy this team so yelling SELL is futile. Even with a winning team, a sold out arena night in and out, Wang loses money because of the economics of the contract this team is stuck in. Facts. Let’s stick to them.
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Orange&Blue says:
The shape and condition of the NVMC is not the issue with this team. The shape and condition of the product on the ice is the problem. Did the Penguin fans mind going to the old Igloo when they made the Cup finals for 2 years in a row? I think not.
Garth Snow needs to fix this team. His youth movement has a hit a pothole and he refuses to face serious questions about it. Bailey has been demoted. Comeau is not producing anything except for bad hats during interviews. Time for a real GM!!!
Why would a self-made billionaire put a franchise in the hands of an unproven inexperienced person?? Just dont get it.
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Strummmer's Army says:
Exactly the reason they cannot sell tickets is not so much the arena but the on ice product and the bizare way management often chooses to conduct themselves.
The same applies to why they cannot sign FA’s.
Better product on ice equals mroe revenue for the team in ticket sales, merchandice sales, etc.
Why Wang and Snow don’t realize this yet I am uncertain but we all know they are sometimes very slow to realize how the world works, like remember their stance not so long ago on “it’s still the new NHL, we don’t need toughness etc” while everyone else was loading up for war and beating the crap out of the Isles and intimidating the team so badly they’d quit.
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Jim says:
CB – I agree with you 100%. If the building was good enough to sell out during the 80′s, it’s good enough to sell out now.
Speaking from a personal point of view if I had to shell out $50 to see a bad, boring team in a new building or a good, exciting team in an old building I’m choosing the latter every time.
SELL WANG SELL!!!
SELL WANG SELL!!!
SELL WANG SELL!!!
SELL WANG SELL!!!
SELL WANG SELL!!! -
Ethan K says:
Wanna make money and put people in the seats? Sell every ticket in the arena for $25, and partial seating for $20. The reason people didn’t show up on that Friday matinee game against the Devils was because the PARTIAL VIEW seats, at the very very top of the Nassau Coliseum, to see the two worst teams in the Eastern Conference were $42 a piece. That’s a lot of money for a group of people to see a sporting event. When the top 5 rows are completely full and the middle and lower sections are mostly available, that means prices are too high.
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Vaskeface says:
Thanks CB for telling it like it is, I’m an avid reader and first time poster. I was beyond disgusted by the NYI’s talking points that NVMC is the root of attendance problems. At a moment when the team is in such disarray, blaming attendance on the bldg is yet another laughable offense that treats us, the fans who have given our time and money to this joke of an organization like complete morons. Garth can only control what goes on on the ice. The building, other than any troubles it causes luring FA’s, is not his concern. And it certainly shouldn’t be a crying point for him or anyone in the organization in the media right now. Say it like it is — “We lost 14 in a row, I wouldn’t pay to watch us either”. Sorry for the rant, utterly disgusted and I vow to support but not spend a dime until something gives.
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McLovin21 says:
Keep telling it like it is CB. Does Wang seriously think anyone believes him about the building anymore? I dont understand why they continue to regurgitate this crap about the building. Nobody believes it anymore, and if its some lame attempt to get the politicians to pay for a new arena, it still isnt working, just like it hasnt worked for decades.
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Stevie10703 says:
Up until the 2001-02 season, my friends and I always had the partial plans (14 game plan) and sat in Sec. 317 in Row J. In 2001-02 the ticket rep called us and asked if we would upgrade to season tickets..face value at the time was about $55 per seat. With the partial plans I believe they charged what would have amounted to $45 a seat, but, at the time to get more season ticket subscribers, they gave us a “loyalty discount” to but the full seasons and the savings were huge, they charged us a little over $1200 for full season which came out to $29.50 or so a game with face value being $55. Due to time constraints but also bad play we gave up the season tickets after the lockout. Anyway, do they still do this or is the price close to face value now for fulls?
What I wanted to get at is simple, Isles fans will come back if management shows they want to build a winner…if you recall, in I believe in 2001-02 we had over 20 sellouts…the next season, in 02-03, we had less sellouts but, a higher average attendance per game. In other words, show the fans you want to build a winner we will come back. Fans aren’t coming back because of the product on the ice, and we’ve been fooled to many times in the past.
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eric says:
Chris great insight.
Someone should point out to Garth Snow what the Pens avg attendance has been over the last few seasons. They played in the worst or second to worst building in the league and they seemed to fill the building…winning cures all and is all that any fan of any team really cares about.
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dlk says:
I’m a STH and 2 weeks ago my rep called me with a “heads-up” that if I renew now for next season, I can avoid the coming $4 per seat price increase for next year.
So the team is crap and they want my $$$ for next year when we’re only a month into this year and they think they can hold a price increase over my head as a way to get me to commit now to next season. Sorry, but I think that is exactly the tactic that is going to make me NOT renew. The product is simply not worth it.
And Chris, it seems a little disingenuous for you to write: “The Islanders chose to stick with the very slow and often unsteady rebuild…” Up until your cred got yanked, you were on-board with it.
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Hollywood says:
As far as the fans are concerned the old barn was never an issue. If you put a competitve product on the ice we will show. The fans have a hunger to show but Wang won’t feed us. In 2001-2002 the fans showed up loud and proud. The team was winning and looked like they were going in the right direction. Then Peca got hurt and it went downhill. This team should have stayed the course then but instead Milbury started to tinker and here we are. Then they raise ticket prices for a team that can’t even play 500 hockey. What did they expect! Like many have mentioned in prior posts, if they invested more on this team things would be different. Charlie and Snow, we want to support our team but first you have to support them.
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George says:
You all really think Wang gives a sheet about the fans?
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Wang Doesn’t care, it shows in every aspect of the organization…that’s the main reason people are not showing up – WHERE IS HE???? CAN SOMEONE ANSWER THAT. He sits in silence like a baby b/c TOH didn’t give him his Mini City.
Does he even know what an Icing is?? -
@George (#99): No I don’t, not anymore. Which is both sad and alarming.
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JTorBust says:
It is so simple , win and you sell tickets. It is like they do the opposite of what a professional should be doing on everything , its a joke. It is known throughout the league that Garth is a puppet and he will never hold another job in this league at any level. Can we start a petition to get rid of this circus ?
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Why can’t we put a winning team on the ice. I am tired of it and wang being stupid. Every of franchise is doing the right thing. Pittsburgh, Chicago are examples.
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TM says:
It’s a boycott. If management doesn’t spend money neither will fans. Besides losing, clueless PR has ignored and abused fans. Detroit seems to have no problem filling an old arena. New arenas in Phoenix, Columbus and Anaheim aren’t full so it’s NOT the building.
I’ve been going to games since 1972 but not anymore. Won’t go back until management gets their act together. If they don’t care enough to spend money to get on a decent radio station and ignore fans west of Nassau, then I don’t care enough to spend money on them.
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Hoser14 says:
A Perfect Spitstorm causing small crowds?
How about towering incompetence!
Why should the less than hardcore show up and pay top dollar for a minor league product?
Here’s a few more reasons:
1-Rise ticket, parking & food prices after 3 last place finishes
2-No promotions, the highest attendance since the Cup years had a promotion at “EACH” game back in 2002 (a very good on ice product helps too)
3-Fire a winning coach in Ted Nolan (and Peter Laviolette too!) and replace him with a good young minor league coach, give him nothing to work with and then fire him for not winning.
4-Draft good young talent in JT, Bailey and El Nino and not bring in “productive” “veteran” leaders to help them.
4-No buzz in the media, only the Little Jimmy Dolan owned Newsday covers the Isles, not the Post, Times and Daily Snooze. Are the Islanders in the Witness Protection Program?
5-Blackball the only source for Islanders insider information, i.e. Chris Botta’s awesome Islanders Point Blank for allegedly making news” rather than “reporting news”…….
6-Fielding a thin undermanned lineup that’s too small, slow and soft
7-Having an owner who kept Mad Mike Milberry around too long and replaced him with the back-up goalie with no executive experience.
8-And last, but least, the old barn that they stuck in till 2015, is a issue with allegedly attracting playersAt the end of the day, it’s the on ice product will dictate the attendance!
PS: FREE CHRIS BOTTA
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Shoeless Joe Jackson says:
This is what I find funny “CB”, you complain about being blacklisted because of your’opinions’…yet…when someone has an ‘opinion’ counter to yours on your own website, you censor it. You know what I call that? A hypocrite. Look in the mirror before crying to your friends in the media.
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All I want for Christmas is for Garth and Charles to realize we all don’t hate them. We just want our beloved Islanders to see success. Please reinstate Chris Botta’s press credentials he was doing no harm.
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44! 44! 44! YES YES YES
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Brent says:
I just got this in the email from the Lightning where I was a season ticket holder when I lived in Tampa.
“Buy three games and receive a $15 gift card valid for food, beverage and Lightning merchandise at the St. Pete Times Forum. Purchase lower level tickets and double your gift card value to $30! Holiday Packs start at $51. ”
Quite the price difference wouldn’t you say?
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You know things are bad when a DIE HARD Isles fan like myself is rushing home to watch the rangers vs penguins on tv. Come on Snow it’s not the arena, we just need some competative hockey like this game tonight.
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Tony says:
I think it’s fair to say that the arena plays a small part. It does for me at least… just one of the many reasons why I’m not spending my money on this team… and I gotta agree with Drive 4 Five… I find myself watching the Rangers quite a bit lately, if not only becuase I’d like to see some decent hockey.
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B says:
If they win, the people will go in.
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peter debenedetto on Nov 30th, 2010 01:18:31 said:
It sure seems like they are trying to turn the fanbase off.If CB wasn’t still so adamant about the owner’s continuing and unwavering commitment to LI, I would think there’s something to this. Total disconnect with an alienated fan base would make a sale to out-of-town interests easier and cleaner. It’s occurred to me before, but I have always deferred to Botta. I just hope he’s right.
CB well noted and spot on. I hope and still believe in the rebuild but this team does not seem to be even better than last year. I do love the fact that I can get top tix on stubhub for a 1/3 of the price so for me its actually cheaper to go to the game now.How substantial was the attendence increase the year Yashin Peca, etc came to town. I was at the TB game the other week and man it was dead, embarassingly so. Not sure what the team was thinking with raising prices even being in the NY area. At this point they should be trying to get as many fans as possible in the building. I dont know if I am in the minority but I watch every game, am dying for this team to be good and fully support them. If I lived closer and had more time off from work I would definitely be going to more games.